Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: WeLeadTheLost on September 06, 2014, 03:36:59 PM
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I was rereading "The Extreme" the other day and found Ax's little story about the Venbar very interesting.
Apparently the Venbar were wiped out by a race called known simply as The Five when they discovered that melted Venbar bodies could be used to enhance their computers. Ax then reveils that soon after the Venbar were wiped out The Five also vanished, adding mysteriously that <Andalites of that time are not the Andalites of today> possibly implying (to me at least) that the Andalites retaliated against The Five's cruelty and killed them off. I found this little backstory very intriguing.
Then I remembered that in the final book when Jake and the group finally hunt down the Blade ship they are met with a deformed Ax who claims to be known as "The One" this seems like more then a coincidence. Has there ever been any light shed on on The Five/One? I'm sure they are related somehow.
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You'd think there might be some relation, but I believe KAA stated she made up The One out of thin air just so the story wouldn't really end.
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I think it would not be too farfetched to assume they were, somehow, related. Perhaps the Five eventually descended into the One, having survived the (possible) Andalite retaliation? I really don't know, but it may lead to intriguing speculation.
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Either one of them survived, or The One's ability to assimilate implies that they combined into one being. I'd probably go with the second guess. Presumably they were weaker when the Andalites banished them. Maybe they fled into Kelbrid space, and the Kelbrids didn't like seeing the Andalite military flying through their territory. That could also explain why the Andalites and Kelbrids have a no trespassing treaty.
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Hmmmm . . . I never considered that, but there is a logic to it that I like. It could very well be that the One didn't even name themselves until they met up with the Five, assuming any survived, of course.
. . .
Wait, didn't Ax say that no one really knows what happened to the Five? Could it be possible that the Andalites just ran them off instead of just slaughtering them? Or am I neglecting to recollect a fact or two?
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I forget if he said no one knows what happened, but that doesn't mean much. What exactly happened may just be confidential. It's just one of those things that adds to the universe, but doesn't effect the main story directly.
Given the fact that the Vebnar melt when exposed to heat, I wonder if they were a crated species like the hork-Bajir, or just lived on a frozen planet that didn't have temperate climates.
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That a good point about the Venber, but I always assumed that their homeworld was like Hoth. Although if they were an artificial species . . . wouldn't that make it easier for the Yeerks to make their programmable Venber much later on?
I wonder why the Five just decided to wipe them out instead of you know harvesting thme like humans do with cattle and other livestock. Granted, the Venber were sentient (it was stated that they were, right?) but that doesn't change the possibility that they could have subjugated the Venber instead of wiping them out . . .not that slavery is all thst better than death (hell, I'd say death is kinder in a lot of ways).
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I'm not sure why they decided to harvest the Venbar all at once. I forget if they're actually sentient, but I doubt the Andalites would react so strongly if they weren't. Was it just greed on the Five's part? Were the Venbar all that dangerous, despite their total intolerance to heat? Did The Five have some big reason that they needed a huge quantity of fuel in a short time? It raises a lot of questions that won't get any canon answers.
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True, though speculation can be enjoyable at times. *shrug*
My guess is that the Five were having rather big economic problems or in the middle of a large-scale war where the discovery of the Venber was a godsend.
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I always figured the Andalites were so disgusted by what the Five did to the Venber that they wiped them out also. I think Ax's quote meant that Andalites don't do that anymore.
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Or believed they did. And clearly they do still do it, though, only by "quarantining" planets, if you catch my drift.
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I always figured the Andalites were so disgusted by what the Five did to the Venber that they wiped them out also. I think Ax's quote meant that Andalites don't do that anymore.
Hmm. I always took it as the early Andalite space goers where just d***s. I never thought they were avenging the venber or stopping the cruelty of the five, they took down a primitive race they didn't understand. Maybe for fuel themselves.
Different ways of looking at things.
I have a head canon of the One being descended from the five, and the five being descended from the 333's mention in TEC; that this was some ancient species that began at some large number and counted down the generations rather than up, but that's just what I told myself to give those races some kind of explanation
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It seems like more just a coincidence with the names rather than being related, it's an interesting theory though.
Am I the only one who doesn't hate the whole The One concept, though? It was a pretty awesome way to just illustrate that even though the Earth War was won, the fight still goes on and someone as unfortunate as Jake is probably always going to spend his whole life fighting some alien menace or another. Sure, it came out of nowhere, that seemed to be the whole point though, sending Jake and everyone else tagging along out of a sense of obligation/responsibility out in a blaze of glory.
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The concept of The One by itsself isn't bad. The idea that this whole thing came up at the end of the last book, just to provide needless conflict is bad. Why start a new adventure that's not going to be continued? What's wrong with just closing out a series by tying up loose ends? I don't want to start up the whole ending controversy here, but I have never and will never like how Animorphs ended.
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It's not a new adventure, though. It's just a way to kill them all off heroically, send them out fighting while doing something noble like searching for Ax. There aren't any "loose ends" if all the miserable characters go out doing what they do best, and the only semi-happy one Cassie gets to live out her life.
All 100% in-character, for both the protagonists and the tone of the series.
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Well maybe I don't think most of them should wind up dead. Maybe I think they all deserve better. And yes there are a lot of loose ends, but that's for a different thread that's been done over and over before. After all those books, I really didn't expect a downer ending, and I'm pretty sure that hope was the original theme of the books, back when KAA cared enough to actually write the majority of them. Not war is hell, and if you didn't hate every second of it you deserve to die.
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I refuse to belief Macro was looking for a suicide mission.
Was every aspect of his life fulfilled? Maybe not, but miserable, not by a long shot.
That said I, now a days, find the ending kinda hopeful. Not sure how, do think everybody died, but still, some how I have optimism when I close that book
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Jake had started to get better. Marco was apparently bored, but not suicidal. I'm not sure what to say about Tobias. He gave up his humanity, but a hawk's life is still a life. I realize that the book doesn't say "and they all died", but it's the last book and there isn't going to be anything else. If I was going to write a fanfic where they lived, I would have rewritten the last arc almost completely. That's why I say they may as well have died.
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This topic has given me a lot to think about. If Applegate actually stated that she just came up with The One as a convenient way to end the series, I guess I'll have to accept that as fact. It's kind of a shame though, especially when I take Chad's theory about The Five taking refuge in Kelbrid space...it just fits too well. Makes me wish I had the patience/talent for writing fanfics.
As for the series finale, I have to agree that it was kind of a letdown. I can appreciate that Applegate wanted the Animorphs to "go out the way they came in" but I've always felt that she built things up a little more then necessary. Plus I've just never cared for cliffhangers *shrug*
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I'm glad someone likes my theories. I'd like to create fanfics, or even just original stories, but I don't like thinking about all the details. Just the more interesting stuff.
Some people's opinion of warriors or soldiers confuse me. The way of a warrior shouldn't be to die a resplendant death. It's to make the other guy die. I guess I can understand why commanders would want their soldiers to think something like that, but I don't think it's something anyone should really want. That's why I don't get why people think Rachel just needed to die, and that she couldn't have coped without war. She was the strongest of them all. If anyone could have done it, she would.
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It's not a matter of Jake/Marco/Tobias being suicidal, though. Of course not. But they had all strayed from their purpose, Marco was sort of superficially happy but not satisfied on any meaningful level, Jake was recuperating from the war horror but sort of aimless, and Tobias was obviously pretty lost. Setting them all out on an Ax rescue mission was awesome in that sense, it's not about suicide, but sacrifice.
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I'm pretty sure that being rich and famous is well within Marco's character, so I'm not sure why he wouldn't be fulfilled by having that lifestyle. That's just how I would have put Marco in an epilogue.
In any case, it's a downer ending in my opinion.
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He pretty much acknowledges it's all just superficial meaningless happiness stuff, though, from memory.
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I don't remember if he says anything about it. I just remember him deciding to morph lobster in his pool, instead of taking a proper vacation like normal people. We do have ways of alleviating stress and tedium. Especially rich people. This is not an intrinsic flaw of being rich, since everyone needs a vacation once in a while.
It just seems like it's something forced. Like Marco is unhappy because KAA wants him to be unhappy. Not because of any particular thing about his lifestyle.
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He's unhappy because he's living this superficial male-bimbo lifestyle, with fake Hollywood friends and everyone kissing his ass. While two of his three best friends are dwelling in mental hell and another one's dead. Snarky comment aside, he's pretty quick to sign up and get out of Dodge, once Jake asks.
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Well what kind of life would you expect Marco to have? I honestly can't think of anything marco should want to do than be rich and famous, and the center of attention. I think that some people can be genuinely happy with a rich lifestyle, and it fits his character, so besides dying in a blaze of glory out in deep space what would you expect Marco to do?
Sure he's quick to leave because his friend is in danger and that's the plot point that KAA felt like bringing up. So what? Why did Ax have to get assimilated? What other lifestyle is Marco going to have that would fit his character? Stand up comedy routines?
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The money thing was probably a) a novelty to him, having grown up at least temporarily in a less-than-fortunate circumstance, partying it up with a bunch of easily-earned cash (especially as a 17-18-19 year old) was obviously a thrill, and b) sort of feeling like at least something good came out of all the horror. He's too sharp of a guy to be content with just that though, I think eventually he'd have grown out of all that though, and needed something more substantial. Jake was basically holding the peace together and training up a new breed of high-tech special forces, Cassie's keeping the Hork-Bajir from being wiped out by extremist humans, Ax is running a friggin' Dome Ship and its battle-group. Pretty sure Marco's not going to stay teen-idol butler-teasing womanizer-extraordinaire forever.
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It is true that being the spokesperson for the Animorphs isn't going to last forever. He would need to start doing something with his money at some point, maybe funding technology so that Earth actually has orbital defenses against alien attack. Hell, he could be Batman if he wanted to be. It's just that I don't really see Marco deciding a proper change of pace being morphing lobster in a pool, and the only reason the Ax in danger plot point happens is to get them into space so they can crash into a blade ship. It just feels forced, just to prevent the series from having closure.
Why did she need to give the series a downer ending? I don't understand. Ax's and Marco's ending before The One business was about the best thing about the ending, and she threw that away. It really upset me.
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Aren't we supposed to be discussing the Five here?
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Yes we are. I'm sorry the topic went off the rails.
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Why did she need to give the series a downer ending? I don't understand.
Probably about 85% of the whole series is pretty "downer", punctuated with lighter moments for levity.
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I sent you a PM so we could continue the conversation elsewhere. I'm not sure if you got it or not.
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Ah, sorry. The icon's so small I never seem to notice the new messages up there, hardly ever check it. But yep, got it.
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It can be hard to notice unless you actually glance up there.
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I always figured the Andalites were so disgusted by what the Five did to the Venber that they wiped them out also. I think Ax's quote meant that Andalites don't do that anymore.
Evidently, Ax didn't know about the Andalites wiping out most of the Hork-Bajir with a Quantum Virus (The Hork-Bajir Chronicles)!
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I always figured the Andalites were so disgusted by what the Five did to the Venber that they wiped them out also. I think Ax's quote meant that Andalites don't do that anymore.
Evidently, Ax didn't know about Alloran wiping out the Hork Bajir!