Richard's Animorphs Forum

Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: Tim Bruening on October 26, 2013, 05:44:32 PM

Title: The Predator
Post by: Tim Bruening on October 26, 2013, 05:44:32 PM
Ax and the Animorphs have been captured by Visser Three, and their morph time is running out.  However, Visser One arranges for them to escape.  PP 138-139: A Hork-Bajir sent by Visser One gives directions to the escape pod, and tells Elephant Rachel that she will have to demorph to fit inside.

PP 146-147: Ax and the Animorphs reach the pod, and all the Animorphs demorph.

I wonder if Visser One had the presence of mind to plant cameras in the escape pod in order to videotape the Animorphs demorphing.
Title: Re: The Predator
Post by: Chad32 on October 26, 2013, 05:48:47 PM
I wouldn't see much point in her knowing the identities of the Andalites that survived the Dome Ship battle.
Title: Re: The Predator
Post by: Sorunome on October 26, 2013, 06:56:37 PM
^that, remember that she thinks that the animorphs are andalite bandits.
Title: Re: The Predator
Post by: Tim Bruening on October 27, 2013, 12:30:05 AM
^that, remember that she thinks that the animorphs are andalite bandits.

But wouldn't it be useful to capture pictures of the "Andalite bandits" so that Visser One's intelligence experts could later identify WHICH Andalites are involved, and work up profiles?
Title: Re: The Predator
Post by: AndaliteBlues on October 27, 2013, 12:11:21 PM
In the Andalite Chronicles its stated that the Yeerks probably couldn't tell Andalites apart, although that does seem to be something Visser One would do.
Title: Re: The Predator
Post by: cally2 on October 27, 2013, 11:49:15 PM
That never made any sense to me. Visser Three can tell Hork-Bajir apart, right?
Title: Re: The Predator
Post by: itw2009 on October 28, 2013, 09:37:32 AM
thinking really abstractly, i'd think that it'd be less about identifying who the andalites are than which morphs they're most likely to be caught in. in fact, where on earth would six grounded andalites be caught looking andalite and why would it make a difference to identify and capture a specific member of the group? (well, okay. identify and kidnap the andalite equivalent of 'jake' and see how quickly things deteriorate... but still. a hostage is a hostage.) i don't think that dossiers that include photos/videos of andalites would be useful to the yeerks unless those andalites made it off earth and needed to be identified later- after, say, yeerk conquest of earth and a subsequent attack on the andalite home planet. then, it might be about revenge, but it'd have little to do with tactics.

that being said, v1 always seemed to think further outside the box than most. i'm intensely surprised that she didn't earlier conceive or investigate the idea that the bandits might be human. or not andalite. (but then, seerow's kindness and andalite arrogance would make the scenario so unlikely to begin with... thanks, mr. ellimist.)
Title: Re: The Predator
Post by: Tim Bruening on October 29, 2013, 12:05:54 AM
thinking really abstractly, i'd think that it'd be less about identifying who the andalites are than which morphs they're most likely to be caught in. in fact, where on earth would six grounded andalites be caught looking andalite and why would it make a difference to identify and capture a specific member of the group? (well, okay. identify and kidnap the andalite equivalent of 'jake' and see how quickly things deteriorate... but still. a hostage is a hostage.) i don't think that dossiers that include photos/videos of andalites would be useful to the yeerks unless those andalites made it off earth and needed to be identified later- after, say, yeerk conquest of earth and a subsequent attack on the andalite home planet. then, it might be about revenge, but it'd have little to do with tactics.

that being said, v1 always seemed to think further outside the box than most. i'm intensely surprised that she didn't earlier conceive or investigate the idea that the bandits might be human. or not andalite. (but then, seerow's kindness and andalite arrogance would make the scenario so unlikely to begin with... thanks, mr. ellimist.)

It seems to me that Visser One should want to gather as much info on the "Andalite bandits" as possible, which she could use to capture them herself and thus gain brownie points.
Title: Re: The Predator
Post by: itw2009 on October 29, 2013, 06:28:13 AM
potentially. but would yeerks have access to andalite military personnel databases in order to get any backstory on recorded andalites? i would assume not; otherwise, the andalites would have lost the war a long time ago.

chances are- even with photos/video- V1 wouldn't be able to identify said andalites by name... not without some significant effort. i wouldn't be surprised to know that her priorities were capture, torture, and then acquire backstory.
Title: Re: The Predator
Post by: Tim Bruening on November 09, 2013, 05:05:37 AM
PP 134 of The Predator: Ax and the Animorphs have been captured by Visser Three, and locked up in a holding cell on the mother ship.  Were there any cameras in the holding cell so that Visser Three would be warned if the "Andalite bandits" demorphed to Andalite or morphed some other animal?  If not, why not?

Were there any cameras in the hallways?  If not, why not?  If so, why didn't any alarms sound when Visser One's minions freed the Animorphs?
Title: Re: The Predator
Post by: itw2009 on November 10, 2013, 09:38:24 PM
imo- there ought to have been cameras. KASU, really.

but i speak from the pov of military intelligence, earthside, 2013. there are cameras everywhere. in everything.

god only knows what a warmongering, conquering alien race might put, security-wise, in their vehicles of war - their primary means of invasion - to avert spy infiltration, but they sure as heck missed the ball on that.
Title: Re: The Predator
Post by: donut on November 11, 2013, 02:47:25 AM
Quote
It seems to me that Visser One should want to gather as much info on the "Andalite bandits" as possible, which she could use to capture them herself and thus gain brownie points.

IDK, even if she captured them, the invasion still has V3's name on it, he'd get the credit for Earth.

Even if there were cameras in the halls, someone had to be watching while they were escaping for it to matter.  I would think V1 would take care of whoever was watching if they were.

Quote
but i speak from the pov of military intelligence, earthside, 2013. there are cameras everywhere. in everything.

I didn't think it had gotten that bad.   :P
Title: Re: The Predator
Post by: Tim Bruening on November 11, 2013, 07:18:36 PM
Quote
It seems to me that Visser One should want to gather as much info on the "Andalite bandits" as possible, which she could use to capture them herself and thus gain brownie points.

IDK, even if she captured them, the invasion still has V3's name on it, he'd get the credit for Earth.

Even if there were cameras in the halls, someone had to be watching while they were escaping for it to matter.  I would think V1 would take care of whoever was watching if they were.

But after the escape, wouldn't V3's forces review the camera footage and notice V1's minions busting the "Andalite bandits" out?
Title: Re: The Predator
Post by: itw2009 on November 30, 2013, 09:07:38 AM
Quote
but i speak from the pov of military intelligence, earthside, 2013. there are cameras everywhere. in everything.
I didn't think it had gotten that bad.   :P
LOL. maybe in the context of military intelligence: on their own vessels or in their personally protected buildings. xD

but really.... *serious face* everywhere. in everything.

maybe we're going about this the wrong way. if this was hollywood, what would the protagonists do to break out a comrade? find the control room, knock out the security, loop all of the cameras over blank hallways/rooms. aaaand done.
Title: Re: The Predator
Post by: NateSean on November 30, 2013, 12:38:01 PM
Were there any cameras in the hallways?  If not, why not?  If so, why didn't any alarms sound when Visser One's minions freed the Animorphs?

Two words: Inside Job.
Title: Re: The Predator
Post by: Tim Bruening on December 29, 2013, 12:50:52 AM
Were there any cameras in the hallways?  If not, why not?  If so, why didn't any alarms sound when Visser One's minions freed the Animorphs?

Two words: Inside Job.

I figured that Visser 3's minions would be in control of the security systems on board his ship.  Are you accusing some of them of treason?
Title: Re: The Predator
Post by: NateSean on December 31, 2013, 06:56:56 AM
If we were to go on just what we knew from The Invasion on through The Predator, we know there are Yeerks who bare ill will towards Visser Three. Iniss 226 flat out wishes the Council would demote or kill him in The Visitor. In The Messenger, the Yeerks find the Anis clothes and outwardly speculate that the "Andalite Bandits" may be human. One of the Yeerks in that group says, "Maybe, but I'm not telling Visser Three," or something to that effect.

So based on those bits of information, we know that Visser Three didn't exactly inspire loyalty and trust among his subordinates.

From The Capture onward we see numerous instances of treachery and subterfuge inside not only Visser Three's regime but the entire Yeerk Empire. It's not a stretch to believe that Visser One didn't have to twist arms to get a few of Visser Three's security personnel to look the other way.
Title: Re: The Predator
Post by: Tim Bruening on July 06, 2015, 11:13:19 PM
If we were to go on just what we knew from The Invasion on through The Predator, we know there are Yeerks who bare ill will towards Visser Three. Iniss 226 flat out wishes the Council would demote or kill him in The Visitor. In The Messenger, the Yeerks find the Anis clothes and outwardly speculate that the "Andalite Bandits" may be human. One of the Yeerks in that group says, "Maybe, but I'm not telling Visser Three," or something to that effect.

So based on those bits of information, we know that Visser Three didn't exactly inspire loyalty and trust among his subordinates.

From The Capture onward we see numerous instances of treachery and subterfuge inside not only Visser Three's regime but the entire Yeerk Empire. It's not a stretch to believe that Visser One didn't have to twist arms to get a few of Visser Three's security personnel to look the other way.

Then Visser 3 should have a private network of cameras all over his Blade Ship to detect escaping Andalites and Yeerk traitors.
Title: Re: The Predator
Post by: Dylan on July 06, 2015, 11:20:34 PM
But he didn't. Same problem in MM1.
Title: Re: The Predator
Post by: Tim Bruening on July 07, 2015, 02:19:17 AM
But he didn't. Same problem in MM1.

Okay, why didn't Visser 3 set up my proposed camera network after the Great Animorph Escape of "The Predator"?
Title: Re: The Predator
Post by: Dylan on July 07, 2015, 02:22:19 AM
Because he's arrogant and dumb.
Title: Re: The Predator
Post by: Tim Bruening on July 11, 2015, 12:56:46 AM
Because he's arrogant and dumb.

Then how did he rise to the rank of Visser 3 in the first place?
Title: Re: The Predator
Post by: Dylan on July 11, 2015, 01:03:42 AM
Read TAC, that's how he got to be Visser 3.
Title: Re: The Predator
Post by: tigz on July 11, 2015, 05:38:34 AM
maybe there were cameras but being of yeerk design, and since the writer is human, maybe they didn't notice them cause they don't know what they look like and so it wasn't written down. That being said, if they were there then I would assume V1 would have them switched off so that they didn't record the fact that it was her who broke them out.
But the more likely answer is the one already mentioned. Its a mothership, a stronghold. people aren't meant to break in. plus it spends all its time in space. so it should be equipped for space battles not spies.  ;D
Title: Re: The Predator
Post by: Tim Bruening on July 11, 2015, 09:46:17 AM
maybe there were cameras but being of yeerk design, and since the writer is human, maybe they didn't notice them cause they don't know what they look like and so it wasn't written down. That being said, if they were there then I would assume V1 would have them switched off so that they didn't record the fact that it was her who broke them out.
But the more likely answer is the one already mentioned. Its a mothership, a stronghold. people aren't meant to break in. plus it spends all its time in space. so it should be equipped for space battles not spies.  ;D

Visser 3 strikes me as someone who would be security conscious, so would definitely make sure that there were cameras and escape alarms in the holding cell and in the hallways, and check with his technicians to make certain that the cameras and escape alarms are working (especially since one of his rivals is on board).  He would also see to it that his most loyal minions are manning the cameras and escape alarms.
Title: Re: The Predator
Post by: Dylan on July 11, 2015, 11:00:37 AM
Nahhh, he ate all of his minions. As I said, he's arrogant and dumb.
Title: Re: The Predator
Post by: Tim Bruening on July 19, 2015, 02:17:25 AM
Nahhh, he ate all of his minions. As I said, he's arrogant and dumb.

He can't be that dumb!  He is smart enough to have made it to the post of Visser 3!  Anytie he captures Andalite Bandits, I would expect him to arrange for them to be under camera survailence at all times so that he would be informed should they try to escape or even morph!