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Animorphs Section => Group Re-Reads => Animorphs Forum Classic => Past Re-Reads => Topic started by: Terenia on October 18, 2008, 04:55:31 PM

Title: Group Re-Read: Week 11, #10, The Android
Post by: Terenia on October 18, 2008, 04:55:31 PM: Summary

When Marco runs into his old friend Erek he doesn't think too much of it. He's got a couple of more important things to o. Like helping to save the world. But then Marco finds out Erek's been hanging with the kids at The Sharing. And he starts to think that something just a little weird is going on.
So Marco, Jake, and Ax decide to morph and check old Erek out. Just to see if he's been infested with a Yeerk. The good news is that Erek's not a human-Controller. The bad news is that Erek's not even human...

Questions
1) In this book we learn about the Chee and their creators, the Pemalites. What is your first impression of these two races?

2) Do you think that it was a good decision for the Pemalites to prohibit violence in the Chee?

3) One of the Chee, Chee-loros, makes the argument that the Animorphs cannot allow Erek to change his programming because they have never harmed another creature. Do you think that, given this fact, the Animorphs had no business helping Erek get the Pemalite Crystal? Or were they justified in their actions?

4) The Chee 'grafted' the Pemalite soul into wolves, to create dogs. What the heck does that mean?

5) Do you think that Erek made a good decision to revert his programming back to include the prohibition on violence? Or did that decision just mean that the Animorphs almost died for nothing?

Self-Promotion
I would be amiss if I didn't use this book as a cheap way to promote my fanfic, The Pemalite Chronicles (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3928794/1/The_Pemalite_Chronicles) which chronicles the creation of the Chee through to the death of the Pemalite race. Very Happy Click on the title to be linked.

Next week we will be reading #11: The Forgotten.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: Week 11, #10, The Android
Post by: Cloak on October 18, 2008, 05:06:50 PM: Quote from: Teach on October 18, 2008, 04:55:31 PM
1) In this book we learn about the Chee and their creators, the Pemalites. What is your first impression of these two races?

To be honest, I don't remember what my exact reaction was. But I halfway wish that we all can be peaceful and happy as the Pemalites. But the truth of the matter that's an idealistic dream. There will always be the Visser Threes of the world who would never let that happen. I mean, look at what happened at the poor Pemalites.

Quote from: Teach on October 18, 2008, 04:55:31 PM
2) Do you think that it was a good decision for the Pemalites to prohibit violence in the Chee?

The Terminator franchise comes to mind . . . so yeah.

Quote from: Teach on October 18, 2008, 04:55:31 PM
3) One of the Chee, Chee-loros, makes the argument that the Animorphs cannot allow Erek to change his programming because they have never harmed another creature. Do you think that, given this fact, the Animorphs had no business helping Erek get the Pemalite Crystal? Or were they justified in their actions?

. . . Sometimes more harm can come from inaction then action.

Quote from: Teach on October 18, 2008, 04:55:31 PM
4) The Chee 'grafted' the Pemalite soul into wolves, to create dogs. What the heck does that mean?

I sort think of this sorta like a reverse Horcrux thing. Er, that's a Potter reference to those wondering.

Quote from: Teach on October 18, 2008, 04:55:31 PM
5) Do you think that Erek made a good decision to revert his programming back to include the prohibition on violence? Or did that decision just mean that the Animorphs almost died for nothing?

He saw the ease that he could harm/kill people (and I mean that in an interspecies kind of way), and it disturbed him. I understand that.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: Week 11, #10, The Android
Post by: morfowt on October 18, 2008, 06:17:27 PM: Quote from: Teach on October 18, 2008, 04:55:31 PM
1) In this book we learn about the Chee and their creators, the Pemalites. What is your first impression of these two races?
Well I liked the fact that they resembled dogs cuz I like dogs. hehe.

Quote from: Teach on October 18, 2008, 04:55:31 PM
2) Do you think that it was a good decision for the Pemalites to prohibit violence in the Chee?
Well it didn't make sense to me then, but I'm sure they have their reasons (and now I know one of the reasons why).

Quote from: Teach on October 18, 2008, 04:55:31 PM
3) One of the Chee, Chee-loros, makes the argument that the Animorphs cannot allow Erek to change his programming because they have never harmed another creature. Do you think that, given this fact, the Animorphs had no business helping Erek get the Pemalite Crystal? Or were they justified in their actions?
uh...I didn't even get the point she was making. Me never hitting someone is not something I would be proud of. It's something I'd probably do if told to, but I wouldn't feel any pride from it.

Quote from: Teach on October 18, 2008, 04:55:31 PM
4) The Chee 'grafted' the Pemalite soul into wolves, to create dogs. What the heck does that mean?
I think it's like a bit more primitive version of how Aldrea's mind was added to cassie's body in #34. Primitive because they didn't add the whole mind, but rather like basic instincts.

Quote from: Teach on October 18, 2008, 04:55:31 PM
5) Do you think that Erek made a good decision to revert his programming back to include the prohibition on violence? Or did that decision just mean that the Animorphs almost died for nothing?
Yeah, it was a good decision. I'd probably do the same thing if I were him. And they didn't almost die for nothing. They almost died to show them and Erek one of the reasons why he shouldn't fight.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: Week 11, #10, The Android
Post by: Phoenix004 on October 18, 2008, 07:44:20 PM: 1) In this book we learn about the Chee and their creators, the Pemalites. What is your first impression of these two races?

I thought it was pretty cool. Always nice to meet new aliens, especially some more good guys. Plus the Chee end up being incredibly useful to them.

2) Do you think that it was a good decision for the Pemalites to prohibit violence in the Chee?

Since the Pemalites themselves were pacifists, it makes sense for their creations to be non-violent also. Maybe it wasn't the best decision in hindsight, but they had no way of knowing. Then again, even if they had known they probably wouldn't have changed their minds. Better to die in peace then live on as creators of a race of killer robots.

3) One of the Chee, Chee-loros, makes the argument that the Animorphs cannot allow Erek to change his programming because they have never harmed another creature. Do you think that, given this fact, the Animorphs had no business helping Erek get the Pemalite Crystal? Or were they justified in their actions?

Maybe it wasn't right, but considering the amazing advantage the Chee could have given them if they altered the programming? Maybe it was wrong, but it was done with the best of intentions. In their eyes at least, it could be seen as justified even if they didn't like it.

4) The Chee 'grafted' the Pemalite soul into wolves, to create dogs. What the heck does that mean?

My best guess would be some kind of DNA graft that caused the wolves to evolve into a species more like the Pemalites (dogs). Friendly and playful by nature.

5) Do you think that Erek made a good decision to revert his programming back to include the prohibition on violence? Or did that decision just mean that the Animorphs almost died for nothing?

Based on logic alone, it was kind of stupid and made that whole dangerous mission a waste (aside from the fact that they stopped the Yeerks using the crystal). However, Erek was a sentient being with feelings and he was devastated by what he had done. I don't blame him at all.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: Week 11, #10, The Android
Post by: Chad32 on October 18, 2008, 08:13:32 PM: I'm not sure how an android can be sentient. Maybe that's just how advanced they are, though, that sentience can be achieved in machines.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: Week 11, #10, The Android
Post by: V2113 on October 19, 2008, 02:07:45 AM: Quote from: Teach on October 18, 2008, 04:55:31 PM
Or did that decision just mean that the Animorphs almost died for nothing?

Well, technically Marco did die. But Erek restarted his heart. Remember?
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: Week 11, #10, The Android
Post by: Gafrash on October 19, 2008, 05:25:29 AM: Quote from: CloakedFigure on October 18, 2008, 05:06:50 PM

Quote from: Teach on October 18, 2008, 04:55:31 PM
2) Do you think that it was a good decision for the Pemalites to prohibit violence in the Chee?

The Terminator franchise comes to mind . . . so yeah.

Cracker!!!

I recall this being a great read, this book. K.A. introduced the android aliens in a cool way. Awesome ending, too.
BUT I remain on the anti-Pemalites-Chee crowd.

The Chee were sentient creatures (HOW an A.I. can be 'sentient' at the same time is pushing another level of surreal to me), more to the point Earth has been their new home for like almost a handful of THOUSANDS OF YEARS. Their 'new home' was going to be 'destroyed' by parasites. HISTORY showing them that being pure passive leads to genocide under evil exploitation.
ONE CHEE is SMART ENOUGH to try and break the programing in order TO SAVE their 'new world/home', gets involved, DOES SOME GOOD (I am sorry but I don't see that 'massacre' in the end as being a massacre, since they were the ones being massacred on their way out of that building) and in the end withdraws.....

I am sorry, but I get VERY frustrated on the topic of The Chee. I seriously wonder HOW MANY LIVES could have been spared had they been more involved. Jeez, it's almost insulting how millenium robots can get away with not fighting to save Earth, but 13 yold human kids can't. THEY have a choice, and the Animorphs DON'T.
To me, their programing and Pemalite heritage, is no butter, to be honest. They were sentient creatures, in other words: they are capable of arbitrary (choosing the good from the bad), AND they had a way of doing something about it AND STILL chose to be limited in the Animorphs' efforts. Like, when you're organizing an event and someone who promises to help with $50 and only chips in $5.

What we have is 5 young kids doing the IMPOSSIBLE in and out for their 'home' and a bunch of milking androids .
Having said that, they DID help the Animorphs GREATLY by infiltrating the Yeerks AND covering up for the Animorphs when necessary. ~~Not to mention contributing to Rachel's death~~-(Oops! That's not in this book!)
That's certainly better than nothing...

Now, the part with The Chee 'grafting the Pemalites' soul into canines' made me smile. The Pemalites must have been a really cool funny goofy and friendly race along with their passiveness and naivity. Spending their energy in preserving life, as 'grafted' by the Life Gamer, The Ellimist. Can't bring myself to hate them for that.
This was a nice touch, for I too love my dogs and can imagine it.
Marco got to morph an Irish Setter and my 2 thumbs went up, for I missed my Irish Setter I had in childhood. What a neat way to scam into a concert (thin it was a concert), I'll say!
I'd like to note here that K.A. did a pretty neat ride on how being a dog may be like. I always wished dog morphs had been further elaborated in the series, like when Marco does that annoying poodle down the track, like, some breeds seem to have a different persona or something, it would have been kewl to see it further explored.
I think it's in this book that Cassie says something about being reincarnated as a dog... I'd like to know WHERE she got wiser on this topic from. I know she's empathic, but really, all she's done is a wolf in the series. And K.A. established that one is not the same as the other.
PS: I could always see Rachel morphing a Boxer, I don't know why!

IT MUST BE SOOOO COOL TO DO A DOG MORPH!!!
Not so sure on the wolf spider morph though. Urrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrgh!!!
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: Week 11, #10, The Android
Post by: Terenia on October 19, 2008, 11:27:15 AM: I'm definitely with you on the Chee thing, Gafrash. I understand the moral implications, yadda yadda, blah blah blah of the Chee becoming violent.

But really, violent androids who help save Earth from destruction is better than pacifist androids who make it that much HARDER for Earth to be saved. They do become invaluable as spies and whatnot, but I feel as though the Animorphs got gyped out of a powerful ally.

You also make a good point about the Animorphs. They don't get a choice. Prior to this war they were a bunch of kids who were pretty non-violent themselves. They had to adapt in order to save their planet. They had to lose their innocence and some of their morals. I think the Chee were being selfish.

I wonder what would have happened to them if Earth lost?
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: Week 11, #10, The Android
Post by: Phoenix004 on October 19, 2008, 11:39:33 AM: Obviously one of the reasons KA didn't let the Chee change their programming is because it would make defeating the Yeerks way too easy. I think they were incredibly useful as spies and informants though, plus they were able to cover for the Animorphs on long missions. No matter what anybody says about the Chee, the Animorphs would almost definitely have lost the war if it wasn't for them.

If the Yeerks had won, they would still have had the near impossible task of tracking down the Chee. Maybe the Chee would still have found a way to form an underground resistance or something? I wish they'd said more about the Chee in book 41 when Jake saw the future.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: Week 11, #10, The Android
Post by: Chad32 on October 19, 2008, 11:59:59 AM: The Chee were quite valuable as they were, since they could pass as spies or cover for the Anis by pretending to be them at home. I still think Erik should have kept the ability to fight. Even if he wasn't used a whole lot, just one Android free of the programming could have been more useful.

I can't blame them too much. The only time I feel negatively is when Erik powered down the pool ship's guns which caused rachel to have to die. And maybe in 26, when they fought the Howlers.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: Week 11, #10, The Android
Post by: Gaz on October 19, 2008, 12:57:35 PM: I will admit, at the time I first read this book I felt kind of sorry for Eric at the end. Thousands of years of being non-violent and suddenly he has blood on his hands. But at the same time I was a little mad that the Animorphs risked their lives to get that crystal and the Chee are like, "Yeah, about that? We're not going to use it."

Granted, as people have stated, they were useful as spies and covering the Animorphs at their homes.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: Week 11, #10, The Android
Post by: Phoenix004 on October 19, 2008, 01:08:35 PM: Very few of the Chee actually wanted to use the crystal in the first place though, Erek was one of the few. Besides, they had to stop the Yeerks using the crystal anyway.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: Week 11, #10, The Android
Post by: tobiasthehawk on October 19, 2008, 02:54:06 PM: 1. I was amazed by these races! Any species advanced enough to get past violence and things of that nature just boggle my mind and make me yearn for the day we might get to that point as well.

2)This is a hard one for me to answer. I can see them doing this so that they do not start to loose what makes them so special as a species. On the other hand I wish they would of at least of put some protection and guardian programming into their creations.

3)I believe that the Animorphs are totally selfish in this regard. I think before they got into the sticky situation at Matcom they just saw the Chee as an ally and had no regard for the programming they had. (Well at least Marco...Who sees from Point A to B without all those pesky morals)

4) Simply infusing behavioral traits from the Pemalites. I think it would be a simple procedure for the Chee. XD

5) I think he did the right thing! The cost would of been losing his "soul".
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: Week 11, #10, The Android
Post by: Gaz on October 19, 2008, 05:32:37 PM: Yeah, I agree. They had to get it away from the Yeerks. So the mission wasn't a complete waste of their time and effort.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: Week 11, #10, The Android
Post by: Chad32 on October 19, 2008, 05:35:59 PM: Quote from: tobiasthehawk on October 19, 2008, 02:54:06 PM
1. I was amazed by these races! Any species advanced enough to get past violence and things of that nature just boggle my mind and make me yearn for the day we might get to that point as well.

2)This is a hard one for me to answer. I can see them doing this so that they do not start to loose what makes them so special as a species. On the other hand I wish they would of at least of put some protection and guardian programming into their creations.

3)I believe that the Animorphs are totally selfish in this regard. I think before they got into the sticky situation at Matcom they just saw the Chee as an ally and had no regard for the programming they had. (Well at least Marco...Who sees from Point A to B without all those pesky morals)

4) Simply infusing behavioral traits from the Pemalites. I think it would be a simple procedure for the Chee. XD

5) I think he did the right thing! The cost would of been losing his "soul".
Complete pacifism can neither be attained, nor should it be sought after. The plight of the Pamalites shows us this.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: Week 11, #10, The Android
Post by: filmstu2005 on October 20, 2008, 03:28:31 PM: I liked the whole Chee-can't-commit-violent-acts programming. Some call it cliche, someone being as powerful as the Chee but practically defenseless, but I thought it was an interesting twist in the story.

The Chee alone could've destroyed the Yeerks. I personally didn't like Marco in #26 The Attack. He was really hard on Erek for not being able to help the fight the Howlers. I didnt blame him for being scared, but he didnt have to mock Erek b/c of something beyond his control.

And what's up with the Chee being unable to delete memories? If an effin computer can do it by using the Trash Bin, then y the hell can't a Chee. Hmm. Some supercomputer he turned out to be, right?

I'd like to know how the Chee were able to graft Pemalite souls into wolves and create dogs. Im clueless on that.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: Week 11, #10, The Android
Post by: Terenia on October 20, 2008, 05:14:41 PM: Quote from: filmstu2005 on October 20, 2008, 03:28:31 PM

And what's up with the Chee being unable to delete memories? If an effin computer can do it by using the Trash Bin, then y the hell can't a Chee. Hmm. Some supercomputer he turned out to be, right?

Thats a good point. Maybe the Pemalites didn't write that into their programming for some unknown reason.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: Week 11, #10, The Android
Post by: morfowt on October 20, 2008, 05:45:50 PM: this is beside the point, but don't you also have to empty the trash bin to delete it from memory? cuz if it just goes into the trash can, you can retrieve it.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: Week 11, #10, The Android
Post by: wolfev on October 20, 2008, 06:18:11 PM: The chee don't have the same kind of brain we use. They aren't the computers we play with, they are neural networks. Deleting memories is probably like doing brain surgery or something.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: Week 11, #10, The Android
Post by: morfowt on October 21, 2008, 05:06:51 AM: Quote from: wolfev on October 20, 2008, 06:18:11 PM
The chee don't have the same kind of brain we use. They aren't the computers we play with, they are neural networks. Deleting memories is probably like doing brain surgery or something.
well they can't do brain surgery as proven by book 29...
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: Week 11, #10, The Android
Post by: Slushie Man on January 10, 2009, 12:27:50 AM: In this book we learn about the Chee and their creators, the Pemalites. What is your first impression of these two races?

LOVE them. I'm a huge fan of any humanoid dog-like creatures. There's a reason Anubis is my favorite of the Egyptian gods.

Do you think that it was a good decision for the Pemalites to prohibit violence in the Chee?

It was good at the time, because they couldn't have a Terminator situation and have the machines launch a rebellion.

One of the Chee, Chee-loros, makes the argument that the Animorphs cannot allow Erek to change his programming because they have never harmed another creature. Do you think that, given this fact, the Animorphs had no business helping Erek get the Pemalite Crystal? Or were they justified in their actions?

Totally justified. It's not like they were forcing Erek to become violent - HE wanted it. Freedom is the right of all sentient beings, and that means Free-Will as well.

The Chee 'grafted' the Pemalite soul into wolves, to create dogs. What the heck does that mean?

It means pretty much that dogs have a part of that race in them, spiritually.

Do you think that Erek made a good decision to revert his programming back to include the prohibition on violence? Or did that decision just mean that the Animorphs almost died for nothing?

Not sure what I think of the decision itself, however they didn't almost die for nothing as they had still needed to get that crystal out of Yeerk hands in order to save Earth.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: Week 11, #10, The Android
Post by: yunyun on September 25, 2011, 05:28:16 PM: Quote from: Terenia [Teach] on October 18, 2008, 04:55:31 PM

Questions
1) In this book we learn about the Chee and their creators, the Pemalites. What is your first impression of these two races?
[quote/]
that they are so awesome, and their planet sounds sooo cool. :P

Quote
2) Do you think that it was a good decision for the Pemalites to prohibit violence in the Chee?
i'm not sure if it's a good decision, but since the pemelites don't have violence, it makes sense that they did

Quote
4) The Chee 'grafted' the Pemalite soul into wolves, to create dogs. What the heck does that mean?
i have no idea, maybe they like, somehow, did something like the luxxcilia or something of Aldrea's in #34 and did something like that but different put it in wolves
5) Do you think that Erek made a good decision to revert his programming back to include the prohibition on violence? Or did that decision just mean that the Animorphs almost died for nothing?
i think it was a good decision, and the animorphs so didn't die for nothing, now the yeerks can't control all the computers
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: Week 11, #10, The Android
Post by: SkyMorpher on September 25, 2011, 09:51:54 PM: I was just looking over this one last night.

At least it's better than "My Name is Erek"...I really wasn't happy with that ep.

You all answer the questions better than I could LOL
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: Week 11, #10, The Android
Post by: stephxgx on November 08, 2011, 07:16:00 AM: I know these are old posts but something thats bugged me about this book......if there hard wired for non violence how was eric able to change the programming surely the non violent part would stop him changing it?