Totally Random Animorphs Thoughts

[vivaria]

I'm sorry people got offended, but I don't believe I was incorrect or offensive in what I had said. I did not say anyone was homophobic at all. I simply pointed out the fact that conversations about wanting fiction to value platonic relationships more than romantic relationships, or downplaying a character's orientation by referring it to be "pandering" or "OOC," does indeed pretty exclusively happen in fandoms when the conversation is about gay characters or ships in particular. I have found that very rarely, if ever, does the conversation appear when talking about straight characters or ships. I have been in fandoms for quite some time and have seen the same conversation many times. Despite all that, I do absolutely agree with the sentiment! I do wish platonic relationships could be shown to be equally important as romantic relationships, but I would rather see those platonic relationships be valued between a man and a woman, as different-gender friendships seem so incredibly rare compared to same-gender friendships.

[spoiler]In my personal opinion, I would much rather see Marco and Cassie or Marco and Rachel having more interesting but platonic dynamics without it delving into shipping, and I am also something of a sucker for romantic relationships that have broken up to become a friendship, like Jake and Cassie's relationship after the war.[/spoiler]

Not to mention, there is often censorship that keeps creators from being overt in LGBT representation, especially when it comes to kids media, so a creator saying that a character is LGBT outside of the source material is very much just as canon to me, however frustrating the censorship is.

My own experiences, as a teenager, was that I had not known that one could be gay, so until then, I pretty much only sought after relationships with boys even though it usually ended quick or was subconsciously self-sabotaged! But when I found out, I had been in denial and insecure about being "obvious," so I would often play up seeming like I'm straight or continuing to flirt with men to a possibly amusing degree. I've also known plenty of bi friends who are attracted to different genders but have preferences when it comes to relationships, preferring mostly men or mostly women. I don't think any of these points makes it unfitting or OOC for Marco! I think it would be rather interesting to reread, with this new information in mind.

[DinosaurNothlit]

For what it's worth (to those people who had argued that there's no in-canon evidence that Marco was bi), I honestly think he would have been pretty much the exact identical character, either way.  He lived in a time when the mainstream culture didn't really admit that being gay was a legitimate possibility (I know, because I grew up in that same mindset, and never realized I was a lesbian until I was nearly an adult, because I just kept thinking "I'm sure I'll start liking boys eventually, I mean, what other option is there?")

So, if Marco was bi, chances are that he would've thought the same way.  And since, unlike me, he actually would have had feelings for the opposite gender as well, it probably would have taken him even longer to figure it out.  Until then, he would have simply assumed that any feelings for same-gender characters were just really strong platonic feelings (again, that's what I did).  Which means . . . bi or straight, he's exactly the same Marco as far as the series is concerned. 

I mean, come on.  They were in middle school.  Do you really think any of them had that whole 'feelings' thing figured out?  *reflects briefly upon the other relationships in the series*  . . . No.  No they did not.

Anyway, I actually kinda agree with everybody on this one.  Yeah, it sucks that MG just gets to wave his hand and change canon for the rest of us (and I totally agree that JK Rowling is especially annoying this way).  And, yeah, it sucks that there couldn't be more openly LGBT characters in fiction.  But you know what?  I think, on this one, both sides can be right.  As I said, it doesn't change the actual story in the slightest, so you all can just read it however suits you best. 

[SmartGirl333]

I'm sorry but I have to say that it's pretty frustrating, as someone who is gay, how people suddenly lament over how undervalued platonic ships are almost exclusively whenever the mere possibility of gay ships are mentioned. It's just a huge downer to come on here after Marco's confirmed to be bi only to see people complain about it.

I take serious issue with the implication that I'm being homophobic.  I say platonic relationships are undervalued because that's honestly how I feel, all the time, not just when gays are mentioned.  LGBT has nothing to do with the issue.  Everywhere I look on the internet, all I see is people talking about how they want to pair up absolutely every imaginable combination of characters (romantically, sexually, and beyond), even if it totally goes against everything the characters in question are and how they feel about each other.  I like keeping characters in character, because violating who and what they are just turns them into a one-dimensional slate for everyone to slather their own personal fantasies onto and kills what makes them unique individuals.  It's a whole different beast from just mere alternate interpretations.  Tumblr likes to go crazy with the stuff, and that's what bugs me.

I don't have a problem with any of the characters being gay or bi.  I just can't see it in Marco.  Part of it may be because I'm kinda antisocial and maybe even aromantic.  I dunno.  However, offhand, I remember plenty of times he's fantasized about/hit on chicks, and none where he's fantasized about/hit on dudes.  Like, not even curiosities, really.  That would definitely be worth a mention if it happened, given how hard Marco works to cover up all his insecurities, especially if the dude in question happens to be from a different species and planet altogether.  Keeping in character, it would create an insane amount of awkwardness and stress for him because he doesn't want to change how others perceive him, just breaking him down under his easygoing exterior.  Combine that with everything else going on in his life, and he'd probably end up having a mental breakdown way earlier than he actually did. 

This is bigger than Dumbledore, because in this case it actually would have an effect on how he approached his relationships.  Dumbledore never sought out a partner.  Marco did.  If such a significant detail isn't actually in the series, and ultimately doesn't lead to any different conclusions or connect any dots, it might as well not be canon and I have a really hard time accepting it.  It'd be like if they said that Rachel's true favorite morph was actually an ostrich she acquired off screen.  We don't see her morphing it ever, it's never brought up, it doesn't quite gel with how she acted, and ultimately had no bearing on how she approached things in the series.  We know she's pretty cool with bird morphs, but...  That's about all there is going for it in the book itself.

All that being said, I found the (very nsfw) fic "Ax the Prostitute" totally hilarious because it was so well in-character up until just before the end.  That seemed to me like a logical angle for the Marco/Ax pairing to work.  XD

Anyway, if you want to interpret the character that way, okay.  If you want to write fanfic for pairings, that's your prerogative.  Just please don't insinuate I'm acting homophobic because I disagree.

I read that fic once when i was in this one stupid READ ALL THE M RATED FIC BECAUSE SO EGDY phase. The FridgeHorror that Ax told the guys he (she?) was 13 only hit me recently, and the "then they all ****ed" ending was stupid. But your judgement is right.

For what it's worth (to those people who had argued that there's no in-canon evidence that Marco was bi), I honestly think he would have been pretty much the exact identical character, either way.  He lived in a time when the mainstream culture didn't really admit that being gay was a legitimate possibility (I know, because I grew up in that same mindset, and never realized I was a lesbian until I was nearly an adult, because I just kept thinking "I'm sure I'll start liking boys eventually, I mean, what other option is there?")

So, if Marco was bi, chances are that he would've thought the same way.  And since, unlike me, he actually would have had feelings for the opposite gender as well, it probably would have taken him even longer to figure it out.  Until then, he would have simply assumed that any feelings for same-gender characters were just really strong platonic feelings (again, that's what I did).  Which means . . . bi or straight, he's exactly the same Marco as far as the series is concerned. 

I mean, come on.  They were in middle school.  Do you really think any of them had that whole 'feelings' thing figured out?  *reflects briefly upon the other relationships in the series*  . . . No.  No they did not.

Anyway, I actually kinda agree with everybody on this one.  Yeah, it sucks that MG just gets to wave his hand and change canon for the rest of us (and I totally agree that JK Rowling is especially annoying this way).  And, yeah, it sucks that there couldn't be more openly LGBT characters in fiction.  But you know what?  I think, on this one, both sides can be right.  As I said, it doesn't change the actual story in the slightest, so you all can just read it however suits you best. 

THIS POST.

Replies aside, I myself am bi and this is a great development. Marco/Ax was my first OTP.

[Tim Bruening]

What did the Sharing think about homosexual relationships?  Did they take advantage of homophobia to recruit gays as Controllers?

Did the people who pushed Tobias' head into a toilet think he was gay?

[Dylan]

Did they take advantage of homophobia to recruit gays as Controllers?

Did the people who pushed Tobias' head into a toilet think he was gay?

They probably would. They need any controllers they can get, and they have been shown to use bullied of depressed people to make controllers. A lonely LGBT youth would probably join...

As as the gay Tobias thing goes, he was the one to bring up the gay rights thing in 23 and MM4. (Not Marco haha) I'm not saying Tobias is gay based on that though.
http://animorphs.livejournal.com/447471.html

[Tim Bruening]

Did they take advantage of homophobia to recruit gays as Controllers?

Did the people who pushed Tobias' head into a toilet think he was gay?

They probably would. They need any controllers they can get, and they have been shown to use bullied of depressed people to make controllers. A lonely LGBT youth would probably join...

As as the gay Tobias thing goes, he was the one to bring up the gay rights thing in 23 and MM4. (Not Marco haha) I'm not saying Tobias is gay based on that.
http://animorphs.livejournal.com/447471.html

I wonder what the Sharing's public stance was on gay rights.

[YeerkSalad]

They probably didn't care. Homophobia helped business, but it may have made others afraid to join for fear of people being a-holes.

I honestly don't think that Tobias is gay. My guess is that he's feminine but straight. He could be bi, I guess.

I'm wondering if maybe being straight is uncommon on this forum. I'm pretty sure I like only the opposite sex. I feel like there are only 2 or so other active users who have confirmed their straightness.

[Dylan]

I'm wondering if maybe being straight is uncommon on this forum. I'm pretty sure I like only the opposite sex. I feel like there are only 2 or so other active users who have confirmed their straightness.

I wouldn't say uncommon. I've met allot of other RAFians who've said they're straight. It just seems like allot of 20 something year-olds (which makeup a big part of the anifan base) are gay or bi or trans or one of the weird Tumblr sexualities.


(and what I mean by Tumblr sexualities is it's anything outside of straight, gay, bi, or trans.)

[SmartGirl333]

or one of the weird Tumblr sexualities.

Um, you mean genders.

[redtailedsaffa]

I've never understood those either. It seems like they're creating those labels just to satisfy their special snowflake syndrome.

[NothingFromSomething]

Pretty much.  Like the social media sites with their 30 different gender options.

[SmartGirl333]

CAN YOU PLEASE STOP WITH YOUR ACCIDENTAL INSENSITIVENESS I DON'T WANT TO ENTER SOCIAL JUSTICE MODE

[YeerkSalad]

I have seen so many sites with just three.

Not Listed
Male
Female

Like, at least put an 'other' option there!

[Dylan]

I've never understood those either. It seems like they're creating those labels just to satisfy their special snowflake syndrome.

Exactly, It's one of the reasons why I left Tumblr

[SmartGirl333]

I DON'T WANT A FLAME WAR PLEASE STOP POURING PETROL EVERYWHERE

IM GOING TO CHANGE THE TOPIC NOW

So who else has hard copies of Animorphs books?