Author Topic: Group Re-read: Week 9, #8, The Alien  (Read 4115 times)

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Offline Terenia

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Group Re-read: Week 9, #8, The Alien
« on: October 06, 2008, 05:05:03 PM »
Summary
What would you do if you were the only alien trapped on a strange planet? Probably freak out, right? But as an Andalite warrior-caset, Ax has to be pretty cool about stuff like that. He's been hanging with the Animorphs ever since the Dome ship was destroyed by the Yeerks and his brother, Prince Elfangor, was destroyed by Visser Three.

Life on Earth is pretty different for Ax. But there is one thing he, Cassie, Marco, Jake, Rachel, and Tobias have in common. Something that one alien, four kids, and a hawk know they have to do: stop the Yeerks...


Questions

1) I already mentioned that Ax had a small role in MM1, which was his first role as narrator in the series. This is his first extended narration. What do you think about seeing the war through his eyes? How do you think KAA did portraying an alien for the first time?

2) What did you think about the prologue?

3) In this book KA delves into the idea of honor and revenge in the Andalite culture. She also goes into the highly ritualistic culture that they have (morning rituals, death rituals, etc). Why do you think KA chose this sort of a culture for the Andalites?

4) This book begins the exploration of Yeerk emotions. Specifically, with Eslin and Derane and their love for one another. What are your opinions on Yeerk love? Especially since they require three Yeerks to reproduce, does that change the concept of love?

5) What did you think about the Diary entries? Do you with KA had continued with them?


6) We finally learn about the law of Seerow's Kindness and the origin of the Yeerk threat in this book. What was your reaction? How does this change your view of the Andalites? Does this change the Animorphs view of the Andalites, or do they still view them as the 'wonderful heroes'? Should they (given the little they know)?


Next week we will be reading #9: The Secret

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Offline wolfev

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Re: Group Re-read: Week 9, #8, The Alien
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2008, 10:36:43 PM »
I did like the prologue because it gives some sight into Elfangor as a character, that is if The Andalite Chronicles had not happened yet. I can never make up my mind about the Andalites, I like the idea that they are saviors in the beginning but they become more and more of jerks later.
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Offline zaprowsdower

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Re: Group Re-read: Week 9, #8, The Alien
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2008, 10:43:35 PM »
It's just the unavoidable aspect of getting to know someone-seeing the ugly side they didn't want you to see. :P
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Offline Gafrash

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Re: Group Re-read: Week 9, #8, The Alien
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2008, 04:32:39 AM »
I am going on memory here, not having access to the books.
But this was definitely one of my most memorable Ax narrations. It is here, really, that the character's 'voice/tone' is set for me. Ax comes across as a sort of Spock from Startrek or something. His diary entries were a cool addition to the book. I did wish he had taken it up on his other narrations. It is very interesting to be put in the perspective of an outsider describing what he/she sees. He points out simple things that we all take for granted like standing on two legs and sitting down and liking computers over books and all. His comparisons were entertaining.

The rituals of the Andalite culture and their traditions of honor and such were good insight keys to set the Andalites as a genuine and idealistic society. The aliens indeed came off as decent natured, to me. I thought it was appropriate how we got a highlight on the Andalites before any of the other species. Like, I think I would have felt differently if say I learnt about the Yeerks' reproduction way or their hierarchy and stuff first.

I was touched by the revelation of Seerow's Kindness. I see in Ax the latest in a generation of a race that is too full of pride to forgive even themselves. And my hatred towards the Yeerks was also fed, really. I pictured the Yeerk-infested-Gedds rebelling in that station quite vividly, to this day (also helped by War Prince Alloran's very own description in the Hork-Bajir-Chronicles).
I believe the Animorphs get a better understanding of this interstellar war they have embarked on. But at this point, there is still very little they know about their 'awaiting heroes to the rescue'. One could say Ax's P.O.V., though genuine and honest, was biased at this stage.

The most powerful moment in this book, for me, however, was the confrontation with The Abomination at the end. It's quite touching how, even in managing to create a circumstance in which he could avenge his older brother and defeating a most powerful foe, Aximili could not bring himself to plainly kill the free-controller.
And of course the enigmatic words that Alloran let slip to Ax <...they are in the Homeworld...> or something like that... I always wanted to see some repercussion of what this would bring. But it seemingly became a K.A.S.U. Sort of a behind the scene material for a plot of The Decision, I think, but nothing more.

Now, on the topic of 'Yeerk love', it felt somewhat forced in my opinion. I don't know if it was because of my distaste for the Yeerks here or because of me finding the whole 'love is universal' thing a bit cheesy. But the love concept in the Yeerks' setup just felt somewhat too pushed at being blatantly humanized.
And yet, I got seriously convinced, by reading the Chronicles of Visser One later on, that the Yeerks are, indeed, capable of the sentiment of love. And, to me, THE WHOLE 'Secret/Silent Invasion' tactic thing was devised by Visser One through this concept.
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Offline AniFan

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Re: Group Re-read: Week 9, #8, The Alien
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2008, 02:04:53 PM »
I'm also doing this from memory, but I believe I remember enough details.

1) I already mentioned that Ax had a small role in MM1, which was his first role as narrator in the series. This is his first extended narration. What do you think about seeing the war through his eyes? How do you think KAA did portraying an alien for the first time?

It was formal enough with the 'an alien on an alien planet' fact hinted throughout the book. The diaries helped with that.

2) What did you think about the prologue?

I loved it. It was cool to have a peak at the last moments of the Dome Ship before it crashed. Seeing the battle from a different POV .. it was good IMO.

3) In this book KA delves into the idea of honor and revenge in the Andalite culture. She also goes into the highly ritualistic culture that they have (morning rituals, death rituals, etc). Why do you think KA chose this sort of a culture for the Andalites?

The way KA has, up to this point, been showing the Andalites has led us to believe that they are exactly this: idealistic, believing that simple rituals will help guide them into living well and living right. The honor and death to defend their home and people and obedience to their princes is already portrayed in their actions and decisions so it wasn't too out-there for me. 

4) This book begins the exploration of Yeerk emotions. Specifically, with Eslin and Derane and their love for one another. What are your opinions on Yeerk love? Especially since they require three Yeerks to reproduce, does that change the concept of love?

Meh, I couldn't really get into that. The way the Yeerks have been shown, it feels too forced like Gafrash pointed out. I'm not sure if I might change my mind if I read the Visser Chronicles, but for now, I couldn't feel the way KA meant for that whole concept to make us feel.

5) What did you think about the Diary entries? Do you with KA had continued with them?

It was logical, I guess. Aximili was an alien trapped on a new planet. He was a scientist so documenting his stay for future reference was somthing he must surely do.

6) We finally learn about the law of Seerow's Kindness and the origin of the Yeerk threat in this book. What was your reaction? How does this change your view of the Andalites? Does this change the Animorphs view of the Andalites, or do they still view them as the 'wonderful heroes'? Should they (given the little they know)?

It was one of the highlights of this book for me. I loved how Ax shared that story with the Animorphs and we got to know what the deal was with the Andalites being soo strict about letting "primitive" races, as they called them, get their hands on their advanced technology. I don't think it should change our view. Seerow was sorry for the Yeerks being so helpless and wanted to help them. It's 'the right thing to do', like we do with charities and lending a hand to others in need. He couldn't have predicted how it will turn out. The thing that we should believe to be good about the Andalites was that they were willing to help other races fight the Yeerks. Elfangor gave the morphing power so the humans will be able to fight. He did not say 'Let them save themselves and we shouldn't get involved'. Even if Andalites did start the war, they could have gone back to their planet and just fight the Yeerks when they attack them, but they didn't do that.

Offline Cloak

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Re: Group Re-read: Week 9, #8, The Alien
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2008, 02:25:05 PM »
It was one of the highlights of this book for me. I loved how Ax shared that story with the Animorphs and we got to know what the deal was with the Andalites being soo strict about letting "primitive" races, as they called them, get their hands on their advanced technology. I don't think it should change our view. Seerow was sorry for the Yeerks being so helpless and wanted to help them. It's 'the right thing to do', like we do with charities and lending a hand to others in need. He couldn't have predicted how it will turn out. The thing that we should believe to be good about the Andalites was that they were willing to help other races fight the Yeerks. Elfangor gave the morphing power so the humans will be able to fight. He did not say 'Let them save themselves and we shouldn't get involved'. Even if Andalites did start the war, they could have gone back to their planet and just fight the Yeerks when they attack them, but they didn't do that.

Not to mention the bevy of people who've taken advantage of charities and other peoples' compassion before.  Can't think of any at the moment, but I know they're out there.

And I liked the prologue because we see the relationship Ax and a living Elfangor had.  Because afterwards, it is basically Ax hero-worshipping Elfangor.  But I have no brothers, younger or older, so I don't know if this is common there.


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Offline filmstu2005

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Re: Group Re-read: Week 9, #8, The Alien
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2008, 03:03:30 PM »
I am going on memory here, not having access to the books.
But this was definitely one of my most memorable Ax narrations. It is here, really, that the character's 'voice/tone' is set for me. Ax comes across as a sort of Spock from Startrek or something. His diary entries were a cool addition to the book. I did wish he had taken it up on his other narrations. It is very interesting to be put in the perspective of an outsider describing what he/she sees. He points out simple things that we all take for granted like standing on two legs and sitting down and liking computers over books and all. His comparisons were entertaining.

The rituals of the Andalite culture and their traditions of honor and such were good insight keys to set the Andalites as a genuine and idealistic society. The aliens indeed came off as decent natured, to me. I thought it was appropriate how we got a highlight on the Andalites before any of the other species. Like, I think I would have felt differently if say I learnt about the Yeerks' reproduction way or their hierarchy and stuff first.

I was touched by the revelation of Seerow's Kindness. I see in Ax the latest in a generation of a race that is too full of pride to forgive even themselves. And my hatred towards the Yeerks was also fed, really. I pictured the Yeerk-infested-Gedds rebelling in that station quite vividly, to this day (also helped by War Prince Alloran's very own description in the Hork-Bajir-Chronicles).
I believe the Animorphs get a better understanding of this interstellar war they have embarked on. But at this point, there is still very little they know about their 'awaiting heroes to the rescue'. One could say Ax's P.O.V., though genuine and honest, was biased at this stage.

The most powerful moment in this book, for me, however, was the confrontation with The Abomination at the end. It's quite touching how, even in managing to create a circumstance in which he could avenge his older brother and defeating a most powerful foe, Aximili could not bring himself to plainly kill the free-controller.
And of course the enigmatic words that Alloran let slip to Ax <...they are in the Homeworld...> or something like that... I always wanted to see some repercussion of what this would bring. But it seemingly became a K.A.S.U. Sort of a behind the scene material for a plot of The Decision, I think, but nothing more.

Now, on the topic of 'Yeerk love', it felt somewhat forced in my opinion. I don't know if it was because of my distaste for the Yeerks here or because of me finding the whole 'love is universal' thing a bit cheesy. But the love concept in the Yeerks' setup just felt somewhat too pushed at being blatantly humanized.
And yet, I got seriously convinced, by reading the Chronicles of Visser One later on, that the Yeerks are, indeed, capable of the sentiment of love. And, to me, THE WHOLE 'Secret/Silent Invasion' tactic thing was devised by Visser One through this concept.
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Total brilliance. I agree with everything you said.

Offline AniFan

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Re: Group Re-read: Week 9, #8, The Alien
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2008, 03:22:20 PM »

Not to mention the bevy of people who've taken advantage of charities and other peoples' compassion before.  Can't think of any at the moment, but I know they're out there.

Yeah, exactly. Seerow was doing a good thing. It was the Yeerks that should be hated more because they used that kindness against the Andalites. No one should be condemned for doing the right thing, even if it didn't work out for the best.

Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-read: Week 9, #8, The Alien
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2008, 03:27:48 PM »
Seerow was doing a good thing, but didn't take all the precautions he should have. One precaution could have been to make a way to quickly destroy all generators if something went wrong. Like a self destruct switch or something. He and Cassie were surely alike.

I really liked #8, especially since this was the book that got me started with the series. The first one I read.


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Offline AniFan

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Re: Group Re-read: Week 9, #8, The Alien
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2008, 03:53:09 PM »
Seerow was doing a good thing, but didn't take all the precautions he should have. One precaution could have been to make a way to quickly destroy all generators if something went wrong. Like a self destruct switch or something. He and Cassie were surely alike.

I agree precautions might have been in order, but what exactly was Seerow supposed to put a precaution based on. Like in what way do you mean 'something went wrong'? Those generators would have the same functionality whether the Andalites were using them or the Yeerks: a war will be fought on either side, both will be using weapons and firing, etc ...

Offline filmstu2005

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Re: Group Re-read: Week 9, #8, The Alien
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2008, 04:00:00 PM »
I made note of this on another thread. Its very similar to Star Wars, kind of a Sins of the Father storyline. Anakin Skywalker, Padme, Obi-Wan, were all of a different generation. And in that generation chaos prevailed, Darth Vader was created, and terror took over the galaxy.  And it took the next generation, Luke, Leia, and Han, to correct the wrongs of the older generation.

 Its very similar to Animorphs. Seerow had good intentions when he gave the Yeerks advanced technology. But b/c of one man's kindness, there was a chain of reactions that had terrible effects on the future generation. And it took the next generation, the Animorphs, to right the wrongs of the past generation. And Cassie's Kindness, a climatic case in which she handed the Blue Cube over to the Yeerks, sort of canceled out Seerow's actions.


Offline Terenia

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Re: Group Re-read: Week 9, #8, The Alien
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2008, 05:51:50 PM »
I agree with the bit on Cassie canceling out Seerow. Cassie's decision could have had HORRIBLE consequences, but luckily it worked out a bit better than it did for Seerow.

I think its interesting to see how Andalites view themselves. Ax is convinced that if the humans learn about Seerow's Kindness they will no longer view them as the "good guys" or the "honorable warriors", but rather as a race trying to cover up for its mistakes.

I think a lot of Andalites are a bit obsessive over this self-perception of their species. Which was a good move on KAA's part because it makes it all that more shocking as the series goes on and we see the dark side of the Andalite.

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Offline TheSoulEater

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Re: Group Re-read: Week 9, #8, The Alien
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2008, 01:32:44 PM »
Quote
Seerow was doing a good thing, but didn't take all the precautions he should have. One precaution could have been to make a way to quickly destroy all generators if something went wrong. Like a self destruct switch or something.
I don't think it's really fair to say that. I mean, of course we'd think like that, but only because we know how it turned out.

At the time, Seerow had no reason at all to distrust the Yeerks. They were his friends, and they'd never done anything to hint otherwise. It wouldn't make sense for him to install some kind of self-destruct, especially since it was supposed to be a gesture of trust and partnership in the first place.

Offline zaprowsdower

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Re: Group Re-read: Week 9, #8, The Alien
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2008, 01:50:32 PM »
But he shoulda seen the writing on the wall when he gave blind and death aliens the knowledge to spacefare; and that taking things from people wouldn't be a problem because they did it all the time with the GEds.
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Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-read: Week 9, #8, The Alien
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2008, 02:03:17 PM »
Not to mention that he had people like Alloran telling him of the risks.

To be honest, though, the Yeerks probably would have found out how to do it eventually. Even though Gedds don't have great senses or abilities, they would have found away to make portable Kondrona machines eventually.

It is funny that the war started when Seerow did something that could have been good, but went horribly wrong, then the war ended when Cassie did something that could have gone horribly wrong, but went well. Not that Cassies Kindness was the sole reason they were able to win the war, though. I find it debatable that it's even the main reason they were able to win.


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Offline TheSoulEater

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Re: Group Re-read: Week 9, #8, The Alien
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2008, 03:32:20 PM »
But he shoulda seen the writing on the wall when he gave blind and death aliens the knowledge to spacefare;
That was the point, though. Once they received his gift, they wouldn't be some backwater race of senseless slugs. They could travel the stars with the Andalites, as equals.

Of course, Seerow should have realized that eventually, the Yeerks would want bigger and better hosts. But I still don't think he could have predicted that they'd take those hosts by force. After all, the Yeerks had never once shown a tendency towards violence or ill will. They'd been nothing but friendly to the Andalites.

Quote
Not to mention that he had people like Alloran telling him of the risks.
Alloran was an insufferable, arrogant jerk. Not to mention a lower-ranking officer, at the time. I wouldn't have trusted him, either.

Offline morfowt

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Re: Group Re-read: Week 9, #8, The Alien
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2008, 05:56:37 PM »
Quote
Not to mention that he had people like Alloran telling him of the risks.
Alloran was an insufferable, arrogant jerk. Not to mention a lower-ranking officer, at the time. I wouldn't have trusted him, either.
Well I would trust Alloran some of the time, but for that situation, I'd go with my gut and do what Seerow did.

Offline V2113

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Re: Group Re-read: Week 9, #8, The Alien
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2008, 01:58:01 AM »
Questions and Answers

1) I already mentioned that Ax had a small role in MM1, which was his first role as narrator in the series. This is his first extended narration. What do you think about seeing the war through his eyes? How do you think KAA did portraying an alien for the first time?

I think he's a little bit too distrusting. I think KAA did a very good job. This is the home of the world famous Discovering Chocolate part, after all.

2) What did you think about the prologue?

I think it was very sad. The way that Ax and Elfangor left eachother. Elfangor saying that one day their fighters will fly side by side. When ever I read that I just think, no Aximili, they never will. Maybe someday in that big fighter in the sky but never in life. Not ever.

3) In this book KA delves into the idea of honor and revenge in the Andalite culture. She also goes into the highly ritualistic culture that they have (morning rituals, death rituals, etc). Why do you think KA chose this sort of a culture for the Andalites?

To show that Andalites are very strict and by the rules type beings.

4) This book begins the exploration of Yeerk emotions. Specifically, with Eslin and Derane and their love for one another. What are your opinions on Yeerk love? Especially since they require three Yeerks to reproduce, does that change the concept of love?

Not really. It just shows that love can penetrate even the coldest and most evil of beings and that maybe there is more to yeerks than there seems to be.

5) What did you think about the Diary entries? Do you with KA had continued with them?

I think that they were... interesting.

6) We finally learn about the law of Seerow's Kindness and the origin of the Yeerk threat in this book. What was your reaction? How does this change your view of the Andalites? Does this change the Animorphs view of the Andalites, or do they still view them as the 'wonderful heroes'? Should they (given the little they know)?

1) nothing really. That's pretty much what i expected, some really bad thing. 2) It relieves me to know that even they aren't perfect. 3) no, it didn't but it probably did the same to them as to me. 4) They shouldn't,  just look at the finale!
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Offline Terenia

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Re: Group Re-read: Week 9, #8, The Alien
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2008, 11:30:30 AM »
Quote
no Aximili, they never will. Maybe someday in that big fighter in the sky but never in life. Not ever.

That made me so sad, tobias, and it made me laugh so hard at the same time. Now I feel conflicted.  :-\

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Offline Slushie Man

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Re: Group Re-read: Week 9, #8, The Alien
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2008, 12:44:45 AM »
1) I already mentioned that Ax had a small role in MM1, which was his first role as narrator in the series. This is his first extended narration. What do you think about seeing the war through his eyes? How do you think KAA did portraying an alien for the first time?

I thought she did MUCH better then in Megamorphs, and seeing the War through his POV really brought a whole new understanding about it to the table.

2) What did you think about the prologue?

Loved it.

3) In this book KA delves into the idea of honor and revenge in the Andalite culture. She also goes into the highly ritualistic culture that they have (morning rituals, death rituals, etc). Why do you think KA chose this sort of a culture for the Andalites?

Just to give children knowledge about other cultures that are different then their own. IMO, the Andalite culture is VERY similar to the Muslim culture.

4) This book begins the exploration of Yeerk emotions. Specifically, with Eslin and Derane and their love for one another. What are your opinions on Yeerk love? Especially since they require three Yeerks to reproduce, does that change the concept of love?

I felt 'meh' about it. I mean, it was nice to see KA show us another side to the Yeerks then what we're used to seeing, but at the same time, it didn't really get me excited either. I have no feelings one way or the other about it.

5) What did you think about the Diary entries? Do you with KA had continued with them?

Yeah, they were pretty interested and it would have been great to see them continued.

6) We finally learn about the law of Seerow's Kindness and the origin of the Yeerk threat in this book. What was your reaction? How does this change your view of the Andalites? Does this change the Animorphs view of the Andalites, or do they still view them as the 'wonderful heroes'? Should they (given the little they know)?

This is our first glimpse that the Andalites aren't the all-mighty goody goody saviors they're cracked out to be, and I think it was a harsh reality that the Animorphs needed to realize. There is no black and white, only various shades of gray.

Quote
It was the Yeerks that should be hated more because they used that kindness against the Andalites. No one should be condemned for doing the right thing, even if it didn't work out for the best.

I actually really loved how that all turned out, becuase it showed that the Andalites are also not perfect, despite what they like to think. They blame the wrong people for things, and condemn everyone else because of it.



Offline Terenia

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Re: Group Re-read: Week 9, #8, The Alien
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2008, 08:01:03 PM »

3) In this book KA delves into the idea of honor and revenge in the Andalite culture. She also goes into the highly ritualistic culture that they have (morning rituals, death rituals, etc). Why do you think KA chose this sort of a culture for the Andalites?

Just to give children knowledge about other cultures that are different then their own. IMO, the Andalite culture is VERY similar to the Muslim culture.



Really? It reminds me of the the whole old Japanese notion of honor and whatnot.

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Re: Group Re-read: Week 9, #8, The Alien
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2008, 11:36:12 PM »
Yeah, I can see that too. Maybe it was a mix of both cultures. The honor from Japanese culture and the various rituals from Muslim culture.