Author Topic: Group Re-Read 2.0 #33 The Illusion  (Read 2155 times)

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Offline RYTX

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Group Re-Read 2.0 #33 The Illusion
« on: August 11, 2012, 06:41:59 PM »
Synopsis
Change happens. Whether we like it or not....
The Yeerk's Anti-Morphing Ray is ready for testing, and they're looking for an Andalite to try it out on. The Animorphs haven't been able to take this thing out on their own, so they decide to pull a fast one: let the Yeerks capture someone, and lead them to it. Tobias is the perfect canidate for this mission, but just because he lets himself get caught by a Yeerk  Sub-Visser, doesn't mean he'll be able to escape.....

Questions
   1. What did you think about Rachel and Tobias at the dance? Was she pulling for him to resume a human life?

   2. This book introduces Sub-Visser 54, second in command to Visser Three in this part of space, aka Taylor. What do you think of this character, both Yeerk and host? What do you think of the comparisons Tobias makes between Taylor and Rachel?

   3. Two books back the idea of aggressive integration was brought up, but here Tobias is physically and mentally tortured. What do you think about this part of the book, and the effect it has on Tobias later on? What do you think of Taylor enhancing the agony by contrasting it with pleasure and joy? Any comments on the personal scenes we got of Tobias's childhood, good and bad?

   4. For a while Tobias endures his torment by retreating into the hawk mind. Thoughts on this approach? How or why would a sentient mind bear this trial differently than a non-sentient one?

   5. Thoughts on the Elfangor's appearance to Tobias, and the memories passed to him?

   6. In this book Tobias morphs Ax. What do you think of the Andalite portrayed through body and instinct? What do you like or dislike about the way Applegate designed this race? It's revealed that Andalites have an inherent optimistic inclination. Why do you think that is?

   7. What do you think of the relation between Ax and Tobias, as friends, as family, and as Animorphs? Throughout the series they have been close-what do you think of the way their dynamic has been built up till now, and carries on from here?

   8. How resilient do you think you would be under pain of torture? Tobias manages to avoid revealing anything important.  Would you readily submit to your interrogator, or how long do you think you could hold out? How would you try to preserve your secrets, and your sanity?

   9. Approximately when is the last time you read this book? What changes do you expect or would like to see in a re-release?

   10. Anything else?

Answer, ignore and submit your own questions and comments as you please; but remember to vote!

Next week: #34 The Prophecy
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Offline Underseen

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Re: Group Re-Read 2.0 #33 The Illusion
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2012, 10:03:46 PM »
 1. What did you think about Rachel and Tobias at the dance? I think it was a selfish thing to do (In my opinion)
 Was she pulling for him to resume a human life? Yes.

   2. This book introduces Sub-Visser 54, second in command to Visser Three in this part of space, aka Taylor. What do you think of this character, both Yeerk and host? I think that they are both sick characters in this book.
 What do you think of the comparisons Tobias makes between Taylor and Rachel? I think it was a great comparison.

   3. Two books back the idea of aggressive integration was brought up, but here Tobias is physically and mentally tortured. What do you think about this part of the book, and the effect it has on Tobias later on? It made him more of a darker character.
 What do you think of Taylor enhancing the agony by contrasting it with pleasure and joy? Yeah, it is like eating a good food, then a terrible one.
 Any comments on the personal scenes we got of Tobias's childhood, good and bad? I think it builds up Tobias as a character.

   4. For a while Tobias endures his torment by retreating into the hawk mind. Thoughts on this approach? It was a smart thing to do. How or why would a sentient mind bear this trial differently than a non-sentient one? The non-sentient mind wouldn't care.

   5. Thoughts on the Elfangor's appearance to Tobias, and the memories passed to him? Nope. I thought they were nice.

   6. In this book Tobias morphs Ax. What do you think of the Andalite portrayed through body and instinct? It made me want to morph Andalite ;)
 What do you like or dislike about the way Applegate designed this race? I think she made it perfect, with flaws and cool features.
 It's revealed that Andalites have an inherent optimistic inclination. Why do you think that is? They are herbivores... I am not even kidding.

   7. What do you think of the relation between Ax and Tobias, as friends, as family, and as Animorphs? I think it is very close, he lives with him to build it up.
 Throughout the series they have been close-what do you think of the way their dynamic has been built up till now, and carries on from here? I think that after Tobias Morphs Ax they become the closest people in the book.

   8. How resilient do you think you would be under pain of torture? Tobias manages to avoid revealing anything important.  Would you readily submit to your interrogator, or how long do you think you could hold out? I could hold out for a long time  ::)
 How would you try to preserve your secrets, and your sanity? By keeping quiet.
   9. Approximately when is the last time you read this book? Last week.
 What changes do you expect or would like to see in a re-release?  Nothing.

   10. Anything else?
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Offline Ember Nickel

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Re: Group Re-Read 2.0 #33 The Illusion
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2012, 10:02:56 PM »
"It suddenly struck me just what level of cash flow The Sharing controls. Serious cash. Not the kind of money you make selling Furbies on the black market." <- Do they ever do anything productive with this?

Visser Three's one-liners are good.

Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-Read 2.0 #33 The Illusion
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2012, 01:21:58 PM »
I'll agree that what Rachel did was selfish, but understandable. Hawks don't live as long as Humans, and she wants him to be more Human than hawk, especially since she's in love with him.

I'm sure we'd all like to think we'd just keep our mouths closed and not break, but if someone hooked a machine directly to the pain receptors in my brain, I wouldn't last two hours. Tobias didn't actually last long enough either, and the only thing that saved him was the Sub Visser's frustration. Or did he break after two hours. I know it went longer, but I forget when exactly he finally broke.


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Offline RYTX

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Re: Group Re-Read 2.0 #33 The Illusion
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2013, 11:57:36 AM »
Quote
"It suddenly struck me just what level of cash flow The Sharing controls. Serious cash. Not the kind of money you make selling Furbies on the black market." <- Do they ever do anything productive with this?
Did they ever do anything productive with anything?

   1. I found it at least as awkward and uncomfortable as Tobias did. I do not think Rachel would try and get him trapped, but this whole scene was very odd. Rachel's emotions, and their relationship, is very unusual, and the way it was laid out here, just didn't like it.

   2. Speaking of things I don't like: Why are we just meeting Taylor now?! The only people we ever see under the Visser is Chapman and Tom, and clearly she out ranks them both- this is the enemy that should have been introduced way back around book 10. /rant- with mention that V3 won't kill his second in command absent mindedly.
Taylor herself crazy, yes, but not abhorrent.The girl was pitiable, the Yeerk intriguing. Surprised an arrogant master of the galaxy got swept up in the life of a teenage girl. Yeerk psychology must be something, but then I've never been the popular girl, maybe it's just addicting.
I also found the comparisons of Rachel and Taylor uncomfortable. I doubt Rachel's the sadist Taylor is but I see a lot of potential for what could have been had things gone different. Mostly though it was that Tobias, who is supposed to be so close to her, kept making the comparison, and his efforts to disavow them seemed weak.

   3. I was not a fan of this stuff. Helplessness doesn't bode well with me, but something else here always puts me off, but I'm not sure what exactly. It took me a while to see that it had effects on Tobias, and when I did I strongly disliked them. I can't say he should just get over it, but still-half his life has been some form of mental or emotional torture, I'd have thought if anyone should be more resilient, it's him. The contrast method I think, as implementing agony, goes is brilliant. But-and without being dirty- that there is very little in terms of physical gratification to contrast with the physical torment is intriguing: most of his happy memories depended on emotion more than action, but the bad was emotional and physical damage.

   4. This is some cold bull right here. I do not believe for a second that an animal would except this kind of pain as just a part of life.There's a difference between a chronic injury and dealing with being stabbed in the thigh repeatedly. I think people can be indifferent to an animal's agony because they don't express pain in ways we recognize or sympathize with, but of all people the Animorphs should see past that.

   5. I never liked this scene. One because lines in it contradict TAC. And two: it was ghost Elfangor mind-melding with Tobias. The message was fine, but the execution annoys the hell out of me.

   6. This I like though. My first thought is that Andalites must weigh a hell of a lot, and I question endurance as well as agility. Still, Andalites seem like a very cool race from this perspective, enviable in many physical respects-tail, stalk eyes-would have been neat to see some other forms of sport for a race like this. The big mental thing for optimism is very interesting, and seeing how most Andalites behave surprising. From an adaptive view, I could see it being handy, confidence boost perhaps, but how, and it's role in modern times, well I'll leave that to the theme of hope.

   7. They never seem as close as they were at the start, but I guess they were declared BFF's at that point anyway. They have the weirdest things on the planet thing going, and Ax might be slightly more causal with Tobias than he is with the others. Almost like he can be deliberately funny with Tobias, were as it's always misunderstanding that make him and Marco work. I'm not sure how Andalites do family but it doesn't seem all mushy, dinner at the table everynight. Obviously Tobias's family life is atypical, so in that respect they got lucky in expectations of each other. I do find it shameful they they just let it fall of at the end. I mean the very end, but even in the build up-by 49 Ax and Tobias just seem to be working together, without the understanding they once had.

   8. Oh, how I'd like to say I'd be brave and bold. But I wouldn't. I imagine I'd crack very quickly. I don't like pain, I don't like fear, and few things invoke fear like the threat of pain. If I did manage to put in a good effort, it'd probably involve screaming or singing (torture me, I torture back), or mental mantras of songs, swears, incoherent raging, or (and I hope not) pray (still more about convention than belief.)
Something, something, oh crap I pissed everyone off again....