Author Topic: Group Re-read 2.0 The Hork-Bajir Chronicles  (Read 2275 times)

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Offline RYTX

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Group Re-read 2.0 The Hork-Bajir Chronicles
« on: April 21, 2012, 11:34:56 AM »
Synopsis
Not so long ago, an Andalite prince made a mistake. A mistake that his daughter would fight to correct. A unique young Hork-Bajir would change the fate of his people. And an ambitious Yeerk began his ascent to power. This is their story. This is where the war against the Yeerks really begins....

Questions
   1. General thoughts on the major characters and events profiled in this story?

   2. What do you think about the rise of the Yeerks? In just a few years they went from inhabiting pools to taking over multiple species. How much of their success is due to their own  skills, and how much depended on taking advantage of the technologies and abilities of other species?

   3. Dak feels that fight against Yeerks will destroy the Hork-Bajir win or lose. Would the Hork-Bajir be fundamentally different had they won the fight? What do you think will become of them if they should take back their world after the events on Earth?

   4.  Esplin 9466 feels very strongly about a particular advantage of a host: the ability to see. What do you think of the value of sight by Esplin and others throughout the series? Is it an overrated sense compared to others, or under appreciated by those naturally endowed with it? What value do you assign to sight, or other senses, in your own life?

   5. Alloran's plan to use a Quantum Virus may have exterminated the whole of the Hork-Bajir race. Would this have been an acceptable price to pay to protect the rest of the galaxy? Why or why not? Would you be willing to implement such a method, or allow another to use it? If not, what would you risk to stop it?

   6. We see more than once in the series the development of love across species and planetary lines. Do you think this is believable? Acceptable? How important is the morphing technology to these relationships?

   7. This book is presented as a story, told by Jara Hamee to Tobias. What do you think of this relatively simple people being able to portray so powerfully the darkest hours of their race?

   8. Approximately when is the last time you read this book? What changes do you expect or would like to see in a re-release?

   9. Anything else?

Answer, ignore and submit your own questions and comments as you please; but remember to vote!

Next week: #23 The Pretender

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Offline yunyun

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 The Hork-Bajir Chronicles
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2012, 05:05:44 PM »
1. Aldra was a cool character. I found her cool. Esplin is sooooooooo diffrent from Visser 3 and Dak...I dunno
2. Well, the yeerks sure are smart to figure all that out, unless Serrow taught them all that
3. I think they would be like a race of killers, like Dak said, unless no one talks about it and no one other than their generation knows. 
4. Sight is very helpful, I think it's about as useful as hearing. Like a blind person can manage with just his ears so maybe esplin should also have focused a but about hearing (unless gedds are deaf)
5. I think it's okay only is the species agrees. Other than that, that's horrible.
7. Wow. Did Jara memorize that word by word from Dak?
8. Not that much I'd like to see changed. I loves the book. I last read it...last year I think
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Offline Animorphan

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 The Hork-Bajir Chronicles
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2012, 10:51:03 PM »
1) My favorite character was Dak.  He is the genetic anomoly of his species.  His whole life must have been like the epiphanies we have as little kids, when we just suddenly understand things.  It would also be interesting to study the genetics of the Hork-Bajir.  How do you supress intelligence, but have it pop up every once in a while? Aldrea was a typical andalite at first, but it was interesting to see how her views of the Hork-Bajir changed over time.  Esplin was also rather interesting, and it was sort of like Visser One's obsession with humans, or sub-visser Taylor's melding of the yeerk and human brains.  It seems that yeerks have a tendency to lose their identities in their ideal hosts.
2) It seems unlikely that the Yeerks would be able to rise so quickly and dramatically.  They were highly intelligent, however, so I may be wrong.
3) I understand that Dak Hamee thinks that the Hork-Bajir will lose no matter what, but that is because they can not go back to being peaceful creatures.  However, if the Hork-Bajir had won the war, it could provide them with an opportunity for development as a speices.  With the Seer as their leader and their regular council, they could evolve into a more developed species that could lead to them being more protected and independent.
4) The Yeerks are obsessed with sight because they do not have it.  Those of us that are naturally endowed with sight do not realize how useful and wonderful it is.  Likewise, those without sight, such as the Yeerks, do not realize how easily tricked it can be.  For us with sight, we are not as amazed at the sights of the universe because they are commonplace.
5) The quantum virus is certainly the wrong way to detain the problem.  Alloran was very desperate when he ordered that the virus be made.  He knew that they were not winning the war, and that with all those Hork-Bajir bodies, the Yeerks would be even more powerful.  However, Alloran had allowed the Yeerks to change the concept of the Hork-Bajir in his mind from living creatures, to tools.  He was getting rid of the Yeerks tools, rather than destroying a species.
6) Certainly it is possible to love other species.  It is unusual, but possible.  And the morphing technology, as we have seen would give these unusual lovers a way to be able to live and start a family together.
7) It shows that perhaps, over time, there could be a way for the intelligence gene to be spread to the rest of the spiecies instead of just the Seer.  They could gradually grow and learn more and more.
8) I have read this book 7 times so far, the most recent being about a month ago.

Offline RYTX

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 The Hork-Bajir Chronicles
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2013, 12:55:33 PM »
   1. My response to 9 probably breaks this, but obviously, this is a good book. There is a lot happening, linked but not critical to the main series, good for expansion, and that's my favorite aspect of the plot. So in my continuity quest I'm appeased momentarily. Alloran and Esplin I found particularly exciting, Seerow and the Virus-cruel but fascinating. Beyond that I'm at a loss of what to say for in general.

   2. While certainly the Yeerks owe much to Andalites and their victims, I'm still impressed that they managed to get so far so quickly. I personally can't imagine how a race could develop in maths and sciences without the ability to perceive much of the natural world through the instantaneous powers of vision, so to literally go from zero to rival of the galactic super power is impressive. And technology aside, the way they figure out how to invade, they may have more of a predisposition to understanding other species, but still, something to be said there as well.

   3. War changes people, nations, civilizations and the course of  history. That said I think the Hork-Bajir are of a few races that could go back. They killed, not for conquest, but for protection. Not for triumph, but for survival against an immediate threat. This is the only type of combat they've ever engaged in, and I see nothing to suggest that they would this urge to fight for the sake of fighting once the threat is gone. Granted, I thought that about a certain leader of Earth's last chance for survival, but an individual is not a species. I think the Hork-Bajir could restore their ways, if not their innocence.

   4. Sight is the one sense that I would hate to be without. It is very advantageous, and rather enjoyable. But, this is something that I don't think should be a giant deal to the Yeerks. They function well enough without the sense itself shouldn't be profound to the Yeerk, spare it's relevance to using a host. Like if you could suddenly read minds, or detect magnetic fields: definitely neat and with it's benefits, but shouldn't be overwhelming. A Yeerk shouldn't have that as the greatest lament at not having a host. I think sight got played up a lot compared to other senses a lot in the series, because most humans are visually dominated. Even though most the time it's probably under valued, other senses are very capable as well, and learning to use them more in conjunction, or in lieu of vision is very powerful indeed.

   5. Oh, is it wrong that I want to say this is okay? I know it's not, but I understand Alloran's aim. Losing one planet, one race, is worth saving countless more, isn't it? I doubt, or at least hope, genocide would never be my brain child, but in this circumstance, I don't think I'd be the one to stop it if I knew. That of course is from the Andalite perspective. From the Hork-Bajir perspective, well I've never wanted to be a martyr, so while I understand the objective, I'd would not say "okay" and let it happen. I know because of that I shouldn't be okay with it from the Andalite POV either, but honestly, I would be. Selfishness. Need to work on that.

   6. Believable: Not really. Seeing how much mutual love depends on compatibility, and how much that depends on a lifetime of experience I find cross-species adolescents forming life long bonds questionable. Acceptable: I'm on the fence. No harm I guess, but again, so implausible that I'm hesitant. And a part of that is the morphing technology, that these characters need to possess bodies, same species, and interestingly opposite sex, makes it less acceptable. Romantic and carnal love is a part of love, but I think the morphing makes it come off more important that it should be, and without it I doubt these relations would be forged at all. It makes it circumstantial, and that seems wrong to me.

   7. I doubt it was word for word "Dak said, Esplin said" but the point is that Jara told and epic story with great skill-something many story tellers can't do. The forum's debated HB intelligence, and I would definitely add this to the support side. It seems simple, but it really is an incredible skill, one of the reasons I like Jara. Hard to explain, but I think it says something about the power of communication-they may not do math, but they have a great understanding of the world and it's relevance to survival and quality of life.

   8.

   9. I think this is the single most overrated book in the series. It's good. It's an interesting story told in a compelling way. It was nice to get some background into the start of the war. But it's not some great masterpiece. It's too much of the same, and there is a difference between history repeating itself, and plot repeating itself. We've seen the kids swept into war thing before. We've seen ambitious Yeerks and ruthless Andalites, and love blossom between races as their peoples' goals tear all parties apart. Just opinion of course, maybe the best written, probably best art work. Not the best story, not the best book.
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Offline Salad Shooter

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 The Hork-Bajir Chronicles
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2013, 07:14:39 PM »
OMG THE HORK-BAJIR CHRONICLES. Only the best book EVER. I remember the day I read it - May 10, 2001. I remember the exact bench I sat on at the library while I read it before we went home and I finished the book in my room. I even remember that I had a sinus infection!

This is the book that started my obsession with Visser Three as a character. I was already trying NOT to like him, since I very often ended up liking the bad guys in stories and I didn't want to do it again, but then I read THIS book and it was all over.

This is also the book that made me start to appreciate Hork-Bajir as a species. Before, I was all like Andalites are awesome and Hork-Bajir are just the bladey bad guys and not very interesting. But once I read this book, I started liking Hork-Bajir just about as much as Andalites. Yay Horkies! ^__^


 1. General thoughts on the major characters and events profiled in this story?

I think that what makes this book so awesome is its vivid depictions of the characters and the setting. As RYTX pointed out, the plot structure and overall themes are repeated throughout the overall Animorphs series. But the reason I loved this book is the Hork-Bajir world

I loved that this story featured a female Andalite, and a pretty badass one at that.

I liked the whole idea of the Hork-Bajir seers and felt I could relate to Dak, since I often felt weird and different for being much more intelligent than most other humans. What can I say, it's true.

And OMG ESPLIN. I do not have words for how I felt reading his chapters for the first time. I read this book before I read any of the Aftran books, so this was my first time seeing a Yeerk portrayed in a sympathetic light.

2. What do you think about the rise of the Yeerks? In just a few years they went from inhabiting pools to taking over multiple species. How much of their success is due to their own  skills, and how much depended on taking advantage of the technologies and abilities of other species?

I think a lot of it is that they didn't have much else to do before Seerow came. They are pretty much brains without bodies, and their Gedd hosts obviously didn't enable them to do too much tool-making. So when Seerow showed them all this new technology, it's not like they were busy with technology with their own. They were highly intelligent without much of an outlet for it (I have a theory that a lot of their intelligence went into elaborate traditions and mythology pre-Seerow). Seerow gave them that outlet and they went CRAZY. They were like OMG look at all this stuff we can do now!!!!! They were hungry for knowledge and for technological capacity, and Seerow et al. weren't giving it to them fast enough, the Yeerks wanted everything the Andalites had RIGHT NOW and I think THAT is why they rebelled. Plus, Seerow's underlings obviously had no respect for the Yeerks. That didn't help things.

So yeah - they were hungry and motivated. The skills they brought to the table was sheer intellectual curiosity and determination. The technological expertise itself they gleaned from other species.

   3. Dak feels that fight against Yeerks will destroy the Hork-Bajir win or lose. Would the Hork-Bajir be fundamentally different had they won the fight? What do you think will become of them if they should take back their world after the events on Earth?

I think that Dak was right. Experiencing violence changes a person, so it would make sense that it would change the people as a whole. I don't think they would suddenly become bloodthirsty killers or anything, but they would be more cautious, more fearful, more jaded. I think that's what is happening to the Hork-Bajir on Earth. If they take back their planet, it will take them many generations to gain back their earlier innocence, and even then, the experience of the war with the Yeerks will have permanently shaped their culture and traditions. They will tell stories about it throughout the generations.

If the Hork-Bajir had won the battle for their world in the first place ... I think the major difference are that they wouldn't have experienced nearly as much violence, or as much enslavement by the Yeerks, so they would be relatively less jaded. Plus they wouldn't have experienced space travel and going to different planets like Earth. Their culture would not have changed as much.

   4.  Esplin 9466 feels very strongly about a particular advantage of a host: the ability to see. What do you think of the value of sight by Esplin and others throughout the series? Is it an overrated sense compared to others, or under appreciated by those naturally endowed with it? What value do you assign to sight, or other senses, in your own life?

I agree with Esplin. Sight is awesome. I'm nearsighted and can't see detail without the help of powerful lenses, so I HUGELY appreciate being able to do so. I'm also a highly visual person in general. I can relate to when Cassie morphed a Yeerk in #29 and kept on marveling at the sight of things like checkered tablecloths - I WOULD TOTALLY DO THAT. Esplin's reaction to gaining the sense of sight is actually one of the first things that helped me relate to him.

And the day after I read this book for the first time, I went to school and I was like OMG! COLORS! THINGS! The world was suddenly so much more vibrantly alive than usual! Because I was looking at everything as if I were a Yeerk seeing it for the first time, and it was INTENSE. It was probably my happiest day at school that year, since that was sixth grade and it was mostly miserable for me.

   5. Alloran's plan to use a Quantum Virus may have exterminated the whole of the Hork-Bajir race. Would this have been an acceptable price to pay to protect the rest of the galaxy? Why or why not? Would you be willing to implement such a method, or allow another to use it? If not, what would you risk to stop it?

I say no. You can't be sure if it would really have that much of an effect - what if the Yeerks just went and found a different race to use for shock troops? So I see no reason to commit genocide. Obviously the Q-virus didn't stop the Yeerk Empire from expanding further.

   6. We see more than once in the series the development of love across species and planetary lines. Do you think this is believable? Acceptable? How important is the morphing technology to these relationships?

Yes, it's believable. Love at its core is simply caring about another person. That can happen between anyone.

I notice that it is often the people who feel like outcasts from their own species (Dak because of his seerishness, Aldrea because she'd lost her family and her own people didn't respect her, Elfangor because he'd enabled Visser Three to become an Andalite-Controller, and Loren because she rejected by the cheerleading squad and her dad had PTSD from Vietnam, and look how crazy her sister turned out, she probably had family issues) who end up in interspecies relationships. Rachel and Tobias might fall into this category, only with them it was backwards - they started out as the same species and ended up as different ones. But they too are outcasts-ish - Tobias for obvious reasons, and Rachel because she was more violent and aggressive than is socially acceptable for human females. (Sort of like Aldrea with the Andalites.)

The morphing technology simply enables those love relationships to have a sexual dimension without it bordering on bestiality. Which is convenient since these are supposed to be kids' books. ;D

   7. This book is presented as a story, told by Jara Hamee to Tobias. What do you think of this relatively simple people being able to portray so powerfully the darkest hours of their race?

I think Jara and those who passed the story down to him must have been able to convey the feelings of the story more than anything else, and that is what Tobias picked up on. I can see that happening.

   8. Approximately when is the last time you read this book? What changes do you expect or would like to see in a re-release?

I've read it so many times. I'm going through it right now to get material for my fanfic. And no changes - it's perfect the way it is. Don't go messing around with my beloved HBC!

   9. Anything else?

One more thing I love about this book is it introduced Toby Hamee, another of my favorite characters, and I love how she ended the book on a happy note.

Also, Tobias was an idiot during this book. Couldn't remember that female Horks have two horns and males have three? Couldn't remember that Dak was Jara's grandfather after Jara all but said so at the beginning of the story? Couldn't tell that Esplin was Visser Three?

(In his defense, I myself was not entirely sure that Esplin was Visser Three until Jara confirmed it, but that's because I thought my own brain was looking for similarities between them on purpose and exaggerating them. Because I started wondering if this Yeerk was Visser Three before he said anything about wanting to become an Andalite-Controller.)