Author Topic: Group Re-read 2.0 #10 The Android  (Read 2230 times)

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Offline RYTX

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Group Re-read 2.0 #10 The Android
« on: January 07, 2012, 03:20:40 PM »
Synopsis
Fear has a new name...Yeerk.
In the fight for Earth's survival, the Animorphs have very little going for them. When Marco runs in to an old pal, Erek, things seem to have only gotten worse. This old friend is handing out fliers for The Sharing, and whatever he is, he certainly isn't human. Turns out Erek is much more than he appears. And the Animorphs may have a powerful new ally...

Questions
   1. Initial thoughts on Erek and the Chee? What do you think about their history, their pacifist nature, and the role of the Chee here and further in the books? The Chee are often called an under-used resource: how would you incorporate them into the story more?

   2. In the Animorphs universe, dogs are not only derived of wolves, but imbued with essence of the Pemalites. What do you think of this alien force being the source of playfulness in man's best friend?  What do you think the process of "grafting the essence" of one species to another entails?

   3. Marco and his dad may be the closest Animorph-Parent interaction we see in the series, and this book marks the first time is Peter is targeted by the Yeerks. What do you think of Macro's dad as a secondary character, and his own links to the war he remains ignorant of?

   4. What do you think of Marco's development up to this point? What further contributions has he made to the Animorphs survival? The matter of his mother has remained quiet, what do you think of how he continues to deal with that all important fact?

   5. In this book, Marco and Ax take on the wolf spider morph. What do you think of the portrayal of this animal in this book and throughout the series? Do you think Applegate's descriptions of its abilities and attitudes were accurate, exaggerated or undersold? What do you envision the experience of being a spider to be like? What attributes besides hunger would you expect of this creature?

   6. This book reveals a touch more information on the morphing process, mass extrusion into Z-space. Any thoughts on the science and science fiction of morphing?

   7. What would you do in Erek's place? Had you lived your entirely live peacefully, would you ever look to use violence to protect a cause? After doing so, Erek reverts back to his strictly nonviolent ways: is that decision you can be sympathetic with?

   8. Do you wish at all that our species could face the universe and say "We do not kill? We do not enslave? We do not make war?" If so, how would you go about fulfilling that dream?

   9. Have you noticed this is the first book were  Visser Three is never physically present in any form? Is there any relevance in that?

   10. Approximately when is the last time you read this book? What changes do you expect or would like to see in a re-release?

   11. Anything else?

Answer, ignore and submit your own questions and comments as you please; but remember to vote!

Next week: #11: The Forgotten

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Offline Ember Nickel

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #10 The Android
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2012, 12:47:31 AM »
1. Eh. Like I said about the Ellimist, I think, it's really awkward to have a tool powerful enough to break the game unless you contrive to constrain it somehow. I think they could have probably had a reduced role.
2. Kind of a dumb premise since we're pretty sure dogs were kind of artificially selected from wolves by humans picking the most docile animals of one generation to stay with them and fight for them and stuff.
7. I guess...if they're so powerful with the crystal, can they not delete their own memories? It makes sense that Erek changed his mind, but I feel like he should be able to delete/modify his own memory.
8. Yes, and, I have no idea.  :'(

11. I think the description of the Pemalites--"And they had been a fully evolved race for so long that all the harsher instincts were gone from them"--is a little misleading, given what we learn in The Ellimist Chronicles (which probably wasn't set at the time this book came out). Again, like I said recently, Applegate seems not to understand evolution fully.

Also, unsubtle "Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings" namedrop is unsubtle.

Offline XtheoniongirlX

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #10 The Android
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2012, 07:49:23 PM »
   1. Initial thoughts on Erek and the Chee? What do you think about their history, their pacifist nature, and the role of the Chee here and further in the books? The Chee are often called an under-used resource: how would you incorporate them into the story more?

This was actually the first book I've ever read of the series before my elementary school made the series a part of its curriculum. I remember expecting a campy Stop-The-Yeerk-Of-The-Week-With-New-Morphs format, and I got something else entirely. The description of the massacre pulled no punches and there was no real rejoicing over Erek's last-minute rescue. I found that disturbing and actually a little admirable. They played it straight, and I guess in a way it's a premonition of how the end of the Yeerk invasion will feel like.

I personally didn't feel that they were underused at all. Indeed, my first impression was that Erek would not appear much in the series afterwards aside from providing intel on a few key missions, and yet he turned out to be involved (however reluctantly) in Jake's final plan to end the war. Along with other services the Chee/Erek provided throughout key moments in the series (#26 The Attack comes to mind), I thought they were used well enough.

   3. Marco and his dad may be the closest Animorph-Parent interaction we see in the series, and this book marks the first time is Peter is targeted by the Yeerks. What do you think of Macro's dad as a secondary character, and his own links to the war he remains ignorant of?

I like his father. They both have a nice relationship together, and I was pretty impressed with his decision to stay with Nora when he found out Eva was alive all along... a significant decision that was kind of rendered moot when he was brought into hiding and seemingly stayed with Eva even after the war had ended. On another note, I find it a little unfair how much hate he gets for unintentionally jump-starting the all-out war in the final arc. That's the keyword right there; unintentionally. It's not his fault.

   4. What do you think of Marco's development up to this point? What further contributions has he made to the Animorphs survival? The matter of his mother has remained quiet, what do you think of how he continues to deal with that all important fact?

I didn't much of him originally - most of his jokes fell flat and I've only ever laughed at other people's reactions/replies to his attempts, but Marco quickly jumped to being my favorite Animorph soon after the revelation about his mom's survival. I guess it was a little clichéd, but it did a wonderful job of adding depth to him so it doesn't irk me nearly as much as Tobias turning out to be Elfangor's son. I think his characterization is especially good because his ruthlessness that he later went into detail on had been hinted at since the first book of the series by Jake (when he referred to his skill in videogames). I could go on and on about how Marco is one of the more fleshed-out characters of the series, but let's just end with the fact that he is in some ways a perfect combination of Rachel and Jake.

   5. In this book, Marco and Ax take on the wolf spider morph. What do you think of the portrayal of this animal in this book and throughout the series? Do you think Applegate's descriptions of its abilities and attitudes were accurate, exaggerated or undersold? What do you envision the experience of being a spider to be like? What attributes besides hunger would you expect of this creature?

I think she did a good enough job of describing it, although I thought she would've made some joke about the patience of spiders and turned that into a humorous scene. I've no complaints, however.

   7. What would you do in Erek's place? Had you lived your entirely live peacefully, would you ever look to use violence to protect a cause? After doing so, Erek reverts back to his strictly nonviolent ways: is that decision you can be sympathetic with?

With humans, all wounds and painful memories fade in time. It's not the case for the Chee, so I can't really judge him for going through with the decision to never use violence again. Not to mention humans have a history of violence, and the Chee were programmed without this inherent quality. So I can't exactly give honest input on the "what would you do if you were him?" question. I'll just say I hold no grudge against him for that decision.

   9. Have you noticed this is the first book were  Visser Three is never physically present in any form? Is there any relevance in that?

I'd say Applegate figured the more appearances he makes, the less intimidating he appears, and the first book with a double-digit number would probably be a good idea to start lowering his appearances. Or maybe it's more the fact that if Visser Three was present, he'd have been one of the unceremoniously massacred victims of Erek.

   10. Approximately when is the last time you read this book? What changes do you expect or would like to see in a re-release?

No drastic changes, maybe I'd change the way they got rid of the crystal. It felt a little contrived even the first time.

***

Unrelated; just wanted to let you guys know that I freaking love the audiobook releases and it's wonderful to be able to multitask while listening to you guys read. There's some very good voice-acting work there, keep it up! It's too long a wait for you guys to reach the David trilogy, haha. I cannot wait for the day.
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But we were delayed en route when a stingray in front of us killed a pedestrian.

Offline AllyVP

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #10 The Android
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2012, 12:53:35 AM »
   1. Initial thoughts on Erek and the Chee? What do you think about their history, their pacifist nature, and the role of the Chee here and further in the books? The Chee are often called an under-used resource: how would you incorporate them into the story more?

I was always confused by their limits.  The Chee could give them information that lead to a battle, and that doesn’t count as hurting anyone? What?  Interesting plot device, just inconsistent. 

   2. In the Animorphs universe, dogs are not only derived of wolves, but imbued with essence of the Pemalites. What do you think of this alien force being the source of playfulness in man's best friend?  What do you think the process of "grafting the essence" of one species to another entails?

I think that from an evolutionary standpoint, this makes no sense.  It’s a cute fairy tale though. 

   3. Marco and his dad may be the closest Animorph-Parent interaction we see in the series, and this book marks the first time is Peter is targeted by the Yeerks. What do you think of Macro's dad as a secondary character, and his own links to the war he remains ignorant of?

I like him.  He’s fun.  He’s a little bit like my own mom:  extremely brilliant computer geek.  I love how violently Marco reacts to the Yeerks targeting Peter.  He’s already lost one parent to the Yeerks, and he would blow their secret wide open before they let him take his dad.  It’s an interesting contrast with Jake, who also has lost one family member, but who (I don’t think) would do the same.  This interests me because Marco is by a long shot the more tactical of the two, always thinking ahead, planning and evaluating possible outcomes.
It’s also interesting because he was entirely ready to kill Eva, and as far as he knew, did.  He’d do anything to save his dad, but he will manage to separate Mom Eva and Yeerk Eva in his mind enough to actually be able to kill her.   

   4. What do you think of Marco's development up to this point? What further contributions has he made to the Animorphs survival? The matter of his mother has remained quiet, what do you think of how he continues to deal with that all important fact?

Marco is one of my favorites.  He is extremely fascinating.  He has been developed as intelligent (but not a genius), strategic, suspicious, and terrified.
I think he’s still wrapping his brain around the idea of his mother being the highest ranking Yeerk general.  I don’t think he really starts to understand and accept what that means until book 15, when he speaks to her.

   5. In this book, Marco and Ax take on the wolf spider morph. What do you think of the portrayal of this animal in this book and throughout the series? Do you think Applegate's descriptions of its abilities and attitudes were accurate, exaggerated or undersold? What do you envision the experience of being a spider to be like? What attributes besides hunger would you expect of this creature?

I think the portrayal of the wolf spider is a very good one.  I imagine that a little creature like that would have very powerful instincts.  That is, at the very least, consistent with what we have seen so far: larger animals are much calmer, even if they are prey, and smaller animals are high-strung, regardless of being prey or predator or both.  We know that spiders are an extremely successful species, and therefore have very good survival skills.  And that little body would have a very fast metabolism.  Therefore, it follows that they are extremely successful hunters, and hunt often.

   6. This book reveals a touch more information on the morphing process, mass extrusion into Z-space. Any thoughts on the science and science fiction of morphing?

I don’t think it’s possible, but then what did science look like three hundred years ago?  Hell, even fifty years ago, smoking was supposed to be good for you.

   7. What would you do in Erek's place? Had you lived your entirely live peacefully, would you ever look to use violence to protect a cause? After doing so, Erek reverts back to his strictly nonviolent ways: is that decision you can be sympathetic with?
I couldn’t say, because such a concept is so foreign.  Not because I like violence, but because the idea of being incapable is so strange.  Of being just as unable to punch someone as I am unable to lift a car.  And it has so much gray area, that I don’t think a computer could do that.  Computers are not uncertain.

   8. Do you wish at all that our species could face the universe and say "We do not kill? We do not enslave? We do not make war?" If so, how would you go about fulfilling that dream?

It would just take one to decide that he wasn’t going to follow the rules, and it would all fall apart.  Yeah, that would be nice, but we lost that ability when Eve ate the forbidden fruit. There will always be one cheater, and that one forces everyone else to stoop to his or her level to compete. 
It’s the same as in politics.  If all the politicians decided to play fair, the system would work perfectly.  Until that one decided to cheat.  And then he would win for a while, and the others would have to cheat as well to have a chance. 

   9. Have you noticed this is the first book were  Visser Three is never physically present in any form? Is there any relevance in that?

Eh, not really.  We don’t want a cluttered book, and the Chee was a lot of plot for one.

   10. Approximately when is the last time you read this book? What changes do you expect or would like to see in a re-release?
Re-read it to do this. 
They’ll keep the Lord of the Rings and superhero references, but they’ll change the Nancy Drew one.  That is unfortunate.  Reading these as an adult makes me remember what the 90s were like.  Best decade ever.

   11. Anything else?

I love Marco.  He’s so interesting.

Offline Liberal Tobias

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #10 The Android
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2012, 04:03:30 AM »
I agree with the poparena review of this book: The Chee's pacifism means as much as my decision not to use time travel for personal gain. It's not really admirable or praiseworthy to remain violent if you literally can't do violence. The one Chee who is most against the Chee group who wants to redo their programming so they can use violence to assist the fight against the Yeerks is really full of bull. She wants to impose her will on others so she can still say "Chee do not kill".

In a way, I sympathize with Erek more, but also sort of don't. At least Erek has the capacity to choose or renounce violence (and has an actual choice for himself to make), but four things bother me greatly about his decision. One, he doesn't give the Pemalite Crystal to the Chee, some of who might reluctantly take the mantle of violence in order to save a planet from slavery. Two, he and the rest of the Chee keep Yeerks inside of their head enslaved, a fate that's worse than normal Yeerk slavery- at least an enslaved human can communicate with their captor, even if the captor is a total dick (or needs to be to avoid questioning his/her slavery), the Yeerks in the Chee are in solitary confinement. I understand the necessity of it for cover, but to not acknowledge that, but act like violence is a level of depravity you won't stoop to is hypocritical and bogus. Three, if the Chee were capable of using violence, they would likely be able to neutralize the Yeerk invasion with minimal casualties. If they're capable of outright obliterating in combat, surely they could round up the Yeerks, put them on the Pool Ship, liberate the hosts, drive them to the Yeerk Home World (or hell, fly them to Z-Space after book 26 and have them meet the Iskroot), and end the Yeerk threat. But no, instead, Erek decides that not only him, but the entire population of Chee, will stand by and risk what's basically become their home planet. Ridiculous. Four, Erek cites his harrowing experience as the reason he deprogrammed his newfound ability to commit violence. By rejecting the ability to commit violence, he's effectively leaving the burden and consequences of the "dirty work" in fighting the invasion on a small group of much less capable, much younger, and much more vulnerable beings than himself. What's going to be a greater cause of psychological damage: Erek and the powerful, experienced, mature, and nigh-indestructable Chee using violence to stop the Yeerk invasion in what, two weeks? Even that? Or six children not only facing death, but making decisions that could allow their friends, family, and their entire planet to die, while in their formative years? How does the Chee have more of a right than Cassie to abstain from violence? Cassie is similar to the Chee in that killing goes against every moral code she has. Cassie goes to great, unorthodox, and stupid risks to prevent deaths. Yet, aside from 100 pages in book 19, she accepts that in order to protect the planet, she must kill. Why do the Chee so willingly let her do this? [spoiler]Jake cracks after making too many life-and-death decisions. He makes the call to sacrifice his cousin, who had fought with him for three years, and his cousin, his main motivation in the fight, in part because Erek sabotaged the Pool Ships weapons. Why? So Yeerks wouldn't die. He trades the life and mental health of two of his allies, risks the lives of the rest of them, as well as any Yeerks on the Pool Ship, just because there more casualties could occur if the Pool Ship could defend itself. And even THAT wouldn't be so bad, except that, once again, Erek is a total hypocrite. In The Attack, upon viewing the memories of the Howlers, he withholds information about them being, basically, children, only so that the Animorphs would not pause to kill them, given the chance.[/spoiler] As much criticism and flak that Cassie gets for being selfish, moralizing, and hypocritical (and in my opinion, rightly so), Erek is arguably 100x more selfish.

Offline RYTX

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #10 The Android
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2012, 11:15:19 PM »
   1. Excellent new element to add into the fray, throughout. Fascinating history, particularly individuals. I do think they could have done more, they really didn't seem great at getting intel on high level dealings. Probably could have been put to that more actively, or something with the Peace Movement later, something.

   2. Cute concept. Could have, but wasn't expanded on, which was fine. I'm gonna guess essence grafting involves DNA hybridizing, but the way Erek tells it make it seem more magic than science.

   3. I like Peter, nearly as funny as Marco-at least when around the right people. They certainly ingrain him to the events of the story more than the other parents, but it is minor isn't it? That kinda falls off to the final arc.

   4. I'd say his a bit more aggressive since last time. Slightly, and for obvious reasons. Figure his life is busy enough not to dwell on his mother for to long at time. This book turns him into the unofficial ambassador to the Chee, which I never understood why it was delegated to one person, but hey, no reason why not.

   5. I'm not out and out scared of spiders, but have spent some time systematically staring at their mouths through a scope and it's tough not to shudder a little. I like the cold, calculating aspect, it does seem fitting, but I've poke enough spiders to expect some fear there too. Right now I can't help but think that having eight legs would be awesome. The setae I could do without, but it would make for an interesting sensory experience. And the eyes should be a trip. You know some spiders watch each other dance? To have the resolution to do that with compound eyes would really be something.

   6. BULL, unfortunately. However, I love Ax's off-hand explanation. And good that it's used in a relevant book later.

   7. Not having lived my entire life peacefully, it's hard to say. But with Ereks power, there's the chance I'd be addicted. And uncontrollable. Still why with the crystal Erek couldn't wipe his memory, or change his persona a little: those are tough yeah, it's frustrating knowing his strength and that he wouldn't act. That's makes for a lot of sacrifice, by a lot of other beings.

   8. Nope, idealistic and meaningless nonsense.  Only way I could see it happening too would be to have someone at the top with complete power, prevent any insurrection. Course, he would probably be killing, but who says the Lord on High has to be human ? :-p

   9. Was it relevant? No, could it have been? Yes. I went through this reread thinking of all the things that could have been done to, if not expand the Animorphs universe, at least preserve it's integrity. I think the introduction of a powerful new ally in the Chee would have been as good a time as any to introduce another ranked Yeerk to antagonize the Animorphs, and help maintain Visser Three's image, so he doesn't have to be at every minor event. The whole series has maybe 2 dozen key characters, which all things considered worked out okay. But by the time of the GW stretch, it would have been nice to have some things to address further, rather than make one shot characters for one additional story, or just the random adventures that some of those were.
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