Author Topic: Group Re-read 2.0 #3 The Encounter  (Read 3073 times)

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Offline RYTX

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Group Re-read 2.0 #3 The Encounter
« on: November 12, 2011, 03:07:34 PM »
Synopsis
Now you see them. Now you don't...
Tobias has been a hawk for a while now. Trapped in a body that is not his own. And he has to deal with who, and what, he is. But the fight against the Yeerks still carries on, and when Tobias catches sight of alien activity, the Animorphs have to act. They hatch a plan to expose the Yeerks to the world. It's a plan that could turn the tide of the war. Or be the end of the Animorphs...

Questions
   1. Was it okay with you that Tobias and Ax alternate narrations in the story telling? Should either of them had more books?

   2. From book one there were signs, and now Tobias and Rachel have a rather intimate relationship, despite knowing each other for only a few weeks. Where do you think their relationship comes from, and what are your thoughts on it? Are they a good couple? In what ways do they compliment each other?

   3. Though it doesn't work out, trying to take the truck ship is the first attempt to show the masses undeniable proof the Yeerk presence. What do you think of this strategy? How would the world knowing effect the war, and the Animorphs place in it, this early on?

   4. They did however succeed in destroying the ship. How much, if any, damage do you think this caused the Yeerks?

   5. What to you think of Tobias's sudden transition into life as a bird, his brief retreat from and return to humanity, and the compromise of the two lives he ends up on? Is the identity crisis he'll face in later books inherent to the situation, or a personal thing?

   6. For a very short time Tobias essentially leaves the Animorphs. What are your thoughts on that? Is it more forgivable than if someone else (say Cassie) left the group?

   7. Tobias can't go on a lot of mission and has some strict limits on what he can and can't do in a fight. However, he is able to be an all day scout, and provide a lot of air surveillance and information. How important is Tobias's role? Could anyone else conceivably do it? What important contributions do you think Tobias makes to the team?

   8. With the Red-Tailed Hawk, we get a very different insight to the animal mind, especially in this book; it is one of the few where the animal focuses beyond eating or not being eaten. What do you think of the portrayal of this animal in this book and throughout the series? Do you think Applegate's descriptions of its abilities and attitudes were accurate or exaggerated? What do you envision the experience of being a hawk to be like? What do you think it's strengths and weaknesses are compared to the others' combat morphs? What do you think about Tobias's interaction with the female? As a hawk? As a human?

   9. What would you do if you were in Tobias's place? If you had to live your life in the body of hawk how would you go about it? Would you try to live like a bird in the wild, or sheltered and fed as Tobias does until this book? Or would it be too much; do you think suicide would ever be an option for you in this situation?

   10. Have you recently read the original, the reprint, or did you do this from memory? If you've read the reprint, how do feel about any changes?

   11. Anything else?

Answer, ignore and submit your own questions and comments as you please; but remember to vote!

Next week: #4 The Message


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Offline yunyun

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #3 The Encounter
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2011, 04:30:22 PM »
1. I really dont care much. But i would have preferred that they narrate more than they did
2. I think that the relationship should have happen later. They barley even know each other. And Rachel seems really different with Tobias
3. I think it's a good strategy but it would have been better if they had more info or waited till they found an andalite. If they did it, then that would really help them i guess
4. Not much. Th yeerks must have way more ships then 1
9. I'll just be a bird. It's naturally a predator. I might try to suicide...maybe
10. Did from memory. Read the reprint. I don't think the change from "dweeb" to "dork" was necessary though
11. The first part about dealin dan hawk was sorta funny  :)
 
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Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #3 The Encounter
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2011, 04:39:55 PM »
I wonder if there was any foreshadowing on what would happen in book 4. Did Tobias mention any dreams or anything? Even in passing?


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Offline SkyMorpher

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #3 The Encounter
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2011, 09:06:48 PM »
I'll answer more stuff later, but I actually prefer post-Change Tobias, when he can at least morph again. He can be their eye in the sky and help in some outdoor fights, but it's better when he can morph again.

Offline AllyVP

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #3 The Encounter
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2011, 11:29:00 PM »
   1. Was it okay with you that Tobias and Ax alternate narrations in the story telling? Should either of them had more books?
 

I understand it was the easiest way to do things, but I do wish there had been a way to get them both more narrations.  I find details about each character fascinating and annot pick a favorite, but I don't like that two of them got less screen time.

   2. From book one there were signs, and now Tobias and Rachel have a rather intimate relationship, despite knowing each other for only a few weeks. Where do you think their relationship comes from, and what are your thoughts on it? Are they a good couple? In what ways do they compliment each other?

Tobias is very good for Rachel.  But sometimes I wonder if she is good for him.  As for where their relationship came from, I have no idea.  Things like that will always be a beautiful mystery, in real life and fiction. 
Tobias was much more compassionate than he seems at first.  I think that he kept some amount of Rachel's violence in check.  His was the only opinion she really cared about, and that ended up tapering the edge of her recklessness.  Of course, none of this really shows up for a while.  At this point, Tobias just knows that he connects with Rachel the most, but he doesn't even think about it, let alone why.

   3. Though it doesn't work out, trying to take the truck ship is the first attempt to show the masses undeniable proof the Yeerk presence. What do you think of this strategy? How would the world knowing effect the war, and the Animorphs place in it, this early on?

The way I see it, if humans knew of the invasion, Visser Three would have gone to his Plan A, Independence Day style.  And we see in "Back to Before" that, while a lot of people would have died, humans would have eventually won.  From the Animorphs perspective, it makes total sense.  Their reasoning is that why bother being covert if you have the strength to go all-out?  With their limited knowledge, that makes perfect sense.  So there is nothing wrong with their logic here.

   4. They did however succeed in destroying the ship. How much, if any, damage do you think this caused the Yeerks?

These first few books establish how big of a nuisance the Animorphs are going to be.  It's not so much about causing damage it's more like "We're over here!  Just kidding, now here!  Whoops, you missed!"  Significant damage?  No.  Annoying the hell out of Visser Three?  Oh yeah.  And Visser Three's frustration turns out to be a powerful ally many times.

   5. What to you think of Tobias's sudden transition into life as a bird, his brief retreat from and return to humanity, and the compromise of the two lives he ends up on? Is the identity crisis he'll face in later books inherent to the situation, or a personal thing? 

Have you ever tried to go on a really strict diet?  No ice cream, no chocolate.  No cheesy, greasy fast food.  Thoughts of junk food consume your thoughts.  You daydream about the taste and texture of these forbidden foods.  You try to satisfy those cravings with celery sticks and crackers.  It doesn't work.  And when you finally give in, you don't just stop at one fun-sized bar of chocolate, you eat the entire bag.  And then maybe another.  That's what this part reminded me of.  Tobias had been resisting for long enough for the desire to follow the hawk's instincts to build into an obsession.  And when he finally broke that first time, a dam broke.
This is an identity crisis that is ongoing, but he made a huge step here. 

   6. For a very short time Tobias essentially leaves the Animorphs. What are your thoughts on that? Is it more forgivable than if someone else (say Cassie) left the group?

I think that this is a sneakily worded question, considering how the majority feels about Cassie.
i think that every single member of the group is vital, but no one can be perfect all the time.  Every one of the characters had a couple of severe meltdowns.  And we need to cut Tobias some slack.  It's not like he up and left in the middle of a battle, with the others dying.  They were, in comparison to many other moments, quite safe. 

   7. Tobias can't go on a lot of mission and has some strict limits on what he can and can't do in a fight. However, he is able to be an all day scout, and provide a lot of air surveillance and information. How important is Tobias's role? Could anyone else conceivably do it? What important contributions do you think Tobias makes to the team?

Like I said, everyone's role is vital.  Tobias can track some one for 72 hours, figuring out if they're a Controller or not.  He found them entrances to the Pool.  Their joke about him being their Air Force was very true.  He was their escape route, their Plan B, their eyes.  When everyone else was a roach in a building, he could keep them updated on what was going on outside.  If he had not been trapped, he would have been a roach with them and escaping would have been a hundred times harder. 
And in addition to the usefulness of having a large bird with incredible vision, he had personality qualities & experiences that were incredibly useful, just like the others. 

   8. With the Red-Tailed Hawk, we get a very different insight to the animal mind, especially in this book; it is one of the few where the animal focuses beyond eating or not being eaten. What do you think of the portrayal of this animal in this book and throughout the series? Do you think Applegate's descriptions of its abilities and attitudes were accurate or exaggerated? What do you envision the experience of being a hawk to be like? What do you think it's strengths and weaknesses are compared to the others' combat morphs? What do you think about Tobias's interaction with the female? As a hawk? As a human?

I'll start with the combat morph question.  The raptors get underestimated as battle morphs.  No, they are not as good as a tiger or bear, but they are not useless.  Tobias can drop from above, unnoticed until a Hork-Bajir's eyes are a bloody mess and be long gone before his target can think through the pain enough to take a swipe at him.  No matter how many times he does just that, they underestimate the raptors. 
I enjoy the portrayal of the raptors very much.  The bit about the female is.....interesting, but not enough to explore extensively.  *shrug*
I really enjoyed the hawk's opinion of cold hamburger and a soft blankets.  That was interesting, especially because Tobias was trying so hard to be human.

   9. What would you do if you were in Tobias's place? If you had to live your life in the body of hawk how would you go about it? Would you try to live like a bird in the wild, or sheltered and fed as Tobias does until this book? Or would it be too much; do you think suicide would ever be an option for you in this situation?

I don't think suicide is ever the right option.  I know it's corny and overused, but suicide is the cowardly way out.
I think I would try to live as a bird, but that's probably because I've read these.  It's hard to say what I would have done if I had never read these books. 

   10. Have you recently read the original, the reprint, or did you do this from memory? If you've read the reprint, how do feel about any changes?

Read the original.

   11. Anything else?

Yep, two things.
When Tobias returns, he goes to Rachel first.  He's talking about being a predator, killing to eat, and essentially comparing himself to the Yeerks.  Rachel replies "Killing because it's the only way you can survive, because that's the way nature designed you, that's one thing.  Killing because you want power or control is evil."  This is interesting, and sets the stage for later, when we find out about how little the Yeerks have in their natural state.  Nature designed them to be parasites, just as nature designed hawks to be predators.  This is by no means the complex argument we have later, but it is a start.
Second, I realized that these first books are about each of the Animorphs finding their initial reason to fight.  Perhaps that reason changes over the years, but this is about that first reason for fighting.  Jake fights for Tom.  Rachel fights because of how the Yeerks destroyed her friend's family.  Tobias fights to rescue those that are trapped, because he knows how miserable it is.  In two books, we find out Marco's reason.  I can't remember if Cassie makes a "here's my reason" speech in the next book, but I kinda hope so. 

Offline matthew

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #3 The Encounter
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2012, 09:07:27 AM »
1. I would have rather had them have more books.  I guess Scholastic thought that people wouldn`t like them as much.

2. Their relationship probably comes from the fact that they balance well with each other.  Tobias needs more courage, and Rachel needs to calm down a little bit.  This is a way better realtionship than the Jake-Cassie relationship, because KA/ghostwriters develop it more than the other one. 

3. I think that it made sense for the Animorphs, but it would not have worked.  Visser Three would just go around killing everything and searching for the Animorphs.  And now,the Animorphs don`t have the extra benefits of the Hork-Bajir valley and etc.  They also wouldn`t be very experienced.

4. Probably not much.  It must have annnoyed Visser Three though.

5. I think what happens is that he sort of changed on purpose, but then he realizes that life as a hawk isn`t really any better than life as a human.  First, he trys to live as a human, but then he lives as a hawk and accepts it.

6. I wouldn`t say more forgivable, but more understandable.  He now lives as a hawk, which he realizes sucks too.  So he might need time to think about it.  But the group still needs him in the sky.

7. He has an important role.  He can see Taxxons andHork-bajir from a mile away.  He can do surveillance. I wouldn`t say he is the Air Force of the Animorphs, more like the information center along with Ax.  But he does have a big role.

8. Probably accurate, I don`t know. As a combat morph, it`s more  of a flash-bang thing, if you know what I mean.  With the female hawk-interesting but that`s about it.  I do think it would be cool as a hawk when flying.

9. I guess I would try to live as a bird, but that`s easy for me to say.

10. Most of it is from memory.

11. This book was pretty good. We had excellent character development with Tobias, a decent plot, and some action.  Overall, I would call this a high 4 star or a high 5 star, but I feel nice today so...Book 3 The Encounter gets a 5/5.

Offline RYTX

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #3 The Encounter
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2012, 10:52:09 AM »
   1. The way they did this, it doesn't bother me, and I'm honestly kinda glad it was these two that had to switch. Everyone got a little repetitive but I think these two would have over done it had they done much more.

   2. You know, they work, but damned if I understand it. I'd argue that Tobias feeds off Rachel, and needs the support she gives-kinda supported that he already seeks her out, and he falls apart without her. I never see what Rachel gets out of it, I don't like the idea that see needs an external figure to be compassionate, but then, seeing how 48 went down, maybe that really is it.  don't envision it as sustainable, but hey, these kids sustained a lot of things I wouldn't have thought possible.

   3. This was a good plan on their part. And I'm very curious how it would have worked out: MM4 has more distorted than just public awareness. Would V3 have sanction? The Yeerks are still upgrading and building arms the whole time they are on earth. They have some respect for raw human numbers. Without a team of "Andalites" hazing him, the efforts on Earth are probably evaluated differently by both sides. He may not have been able to launch an attack in the "proper" timeline. I can see where the government would take them out of the fight, and they would probably stay out with their lack of experience at that point. I have doubt's Earth would win, but I see the fight being dragged out on the ground, rather than with rapid mass extinctions, and that may actually draw the Andalites attention..

   4. No not lasting damage, but I was a little proud of this one. They are still testing their might: it wasn't a knock out, but it's the first strong showing that they are a real threat that can damage and delay the Yeerks, rather than just a pest that makes noise. THIS is the point were the Yeerks should be thinking, "not only are the Andalites aware and hazing us, but they're smart enough to find us almost anywhere and hit hard.'

   5. I'm glad that he started living as a bird. Provided some fascinating perspective, to say the least. Like I said early, I do think this is where KA hits her rhythm, and the whole scene from his first kill to his rush at the mall exemplifies it: exciting, sad, very well done. To me it seems he never settles, he insist on being a combination of bird and boy that never freaking works, and while that must be partly due to the situation, I think later it becomes about him personally. I'm beginning to think that Tobias was and always will be the guy trying to find his place, even if he has one already.

   6. I did indeed word it for a trap: I'm no Cassie fan but I'd like to keep some things objectives. I'm much more sympathetic to his reasons in this book, especially since Cassie pulling out was like a year into it, but find it pretty foul that he never seems to look at it this way. He shut out people, without considering their need of him.  He had good reasons to go, good reasons to come back, but knowing you depend on him in a fight, I'd be a bit leery knowing he'd up and bail when his personal affairs take precedence.

   7. Right now, I'd say most importantly he is look out, later almost guinea pig, but that's later.Circumstance lends him to doing what no other kid could do with any practicality, but I think it's a very limiting role, considering how often they have to go in without him. Not without it's worth, but, I think, a big part of why he was on the rotated narration.

   8. I like the red-tail, and I like it best in this book. The female was very interesting to add, glad to see the hawk had some concerns other than food. I was rather intrigued by what he said about the hawks feelings on it's death, but beyond that I think the raptors were rather properly portrayed. It's a horrible morph to take against a hork-bajir (do yeerks not know how to make goggles?) but hey, Animorphs are like 80% luck. He should have been the first to die, really, but whatever.

   9. I think I'd be okay as a hawk in the wild, from the mental and emotional perspectives. Bored at times, but a part of me really wants to live that kind of life, so I don't think I'd be terribly torn apart it.

   10. So glad they fixed the eagle/osprey KASU in the reprint
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