Author Topic: Group Re-read 2.0 #1 The Invasion  (Read 7856 times)

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Offline RYTX

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Group Re-read 2.0 #1 The Invasion
« on: October 29, 2011, 08:48:18 PM »
Synopsis
Some people never change. Some do...
When Jake and his friends come across a dying alien they learn that mankind is secretly being taken over by a race of parasites known as Yeerks.  Jake, Rachel, Tobias, Cassie and Marco are given the power to turn into any animal they touch, and must fight to prevent the enslavement of the entire world...

Questions
   1. Any thoughts to share on the major characters, Animorphs and aliens, as they appeared in this book? Does anyone stand out as a good development into or contrast from how they appear in later books?

   2. In general, what do you think of the premise of the series: Kids fighting body stealing aliens by turning into animals?  If you weren't already a fan do you think you'd be drawn to a story set on this notion? How do you explain the books to those who haven't read them?

   3. What do you think of Jake's reaction to the mere suggestion that his brother is a controller, in addition to the fact? Is it important that Jake has a personal investment in the fight from book 1?

   4. What are your thoughts on Tobias being trapped as a hawk? Do you think it was intentional, a horrible accident, or a convenient mistake?

   5. Each of the Animorphs assumes a certain role in the group, and Jake is clearly defined as the leader. What do you think of Jake as a leader in this book? Has he done anything in this book that merits or tests this position for him in your mind?

   6. Piggybacking on the last two questions: what do you think of the decision of storming the enemy stronghold armed with a few combat morphs, a horse and a bird? Particularly, is it acceptable to let Tobias be "happy with just [his] hawk morph" by either him or Jake?

   7.  In this book Jake acquires and uses his signature Siberian Tiger. What do you think of the portrayal of this animal in this book and throughout the series? Do you think Applegate's descriptions of its abilities and attitudes were accurate or does she exaggerate? What do you envision the experience of being a tiger to be like?

   8. Would you have done it? When you were thirteen, or even now, would you agree to get involved in a war, to be carried on in secret against impossible odds with the fate of the world in sway, to possess the powers of anything you touch, at the urging of a dying alien. Would you personally have been willing to become an Animorph?

   9. Have you recently read the original, the reprint, or did you do this from memory?

   10. Anything else?

Answer, ignore and submit your own questions and comments as you please; but remember to vote!

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Offline yunyun

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #1 The Invasion
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2011, 01:01:33 AM »
#1 well... Rachel did get alot more aggressive i guess...Jake got more confident...and yeah...
#2 It sounds pretty exciting. I probably would be drawn to it, but the cover would also be a big factor
#3i think he over reacted. If someone is a controller, you don't want to make a big fuss since that would draw attention. An i think that it's important. If tom wasn't a controller, Jake probably won't be as interested in the fight so the might have lost then
#4 My thoughts is that is it on purpose, maybe a slight bit accidental. Tobias' life sucks, he barley has a home and barley anyone cares about him. So as a hawk, it really doesn't matter much then. And as Tobias' sees it at first, a hawk's life is simple so yeah...
#5 I think he would make a good leader. He seems to stand up for other people and is pretty brave. And seems to have a plan for everything. So yeah
#6 I think that having very few morphs is a big mistake. They don't know what they're going for so if you have lots of morphs, it's better suited for it. And Tobias' should have acquired more morphs. Using them or not, it could still be useful sometime before he got trapped as a hawk
#7 I really don't know if it's accurate or not. It sounds so, but i can't be sure
#8 i would have been willing to fight. First, i read the books already so i would know whats going to happen, but even if i didnt i would still fight. Life doesnt have enough adventure.
#9 I did this from memory. The last time i read it was a month ago
#10 Nothing else that i would add
« Last Edit: October 31, 2011, 04:08:31 PM by yunyun »
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Offline Terenia

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #1 The Invasion
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2011, 10:42:18 AM »
1. Well, in the beginning the characters are, for the most part, portrayed in a strictly black and white sense. The Andalite is the all-knowing martyr. Visser Three is a cackling Scooby-Doo-esque villain who makes terrible puns about taking a bite out of his enemies ( :dull: ). The Taxxons are gross, the Hork-Bajir are dangerous (although we do get the one line that 'they are to be pitied'). The Controllers we see at the meeting of The Sharing and the Yeerk pool (like the police officer) are all generically evil.

Clearly this is something that changed as the series went on and the lines between good and evil became blurred. I think that at this point Applegate had no idea how long the series would run for and was trying to set up a world with clearly identifiable good guys and bad guys for the younger readers. She hadn't quite settled into the characters yet, so they remained very archetypical. Evn the Animorphs themselves fit into their prescribed roles very neatly.

2. Well, when I first picked up the books in fifth grade the premise was entirely new to me and I was drawn in by it immediately. I think that while the idea of "body snatchers" has been done many times this premise in particular is appealing to younger readers. You have aliens, you have animals, you have kids saving the world. Interestingly, most media that I've seen about someone or something stealing another's brain/body/soul is directed towards adults. This is the first time I've seen something like that directed towards a young audience and I think it does very well within the intended age group (and beyond, of course).

As far as explaining the series to others, I actually tend to have trouble on this front. If I say "it's about kids who turn into animals to defeat brain-stealing aliens"...well, that's true, but it doesn't really capture the essence of the series. So instead I tend to try and portray it as a story about the evils of war, the tenuousness of morality and the many shades of gray that exist in this world (and others!).

3. Jake's reaction makes sense. He's the little brother and he idolizes his older brother. In any other situation he probably would've run to Tom for help in this situation, and instead he's suddenly the enemy. Since Jake was the born leader he needed a reason to lead. If he didn't have Tom, the proverbial carrot dangling at the end of the war, he very well may have given up earlier or turned his back on the idea entirely.

4. I think Tobias' nothlitism was partially intentional. I don't think Tobias had entirely thought out the consequences. I think he was scared to death and he hated his life and he loved having wings and he was simply overwhelmed by all these new experiences and did what he does best - he looked for an escape. Maybe part of him didn't really believe he would become trapped. Maybe he was so convinced that he was about to die that he figured staying a hawk was safer. But I definitely think a small part of him was convinced that life as a hawk would be better than anything humanity had ever offered him.

5. He has to make a couple of snap decisions, and he does that fairly well, but overall in this book he's just bumbling his way through things. He is a born leader, but at this point he is an undeveloped born leader. He doesn't have experience to go off of, so he's just guessing his way through and hoping that he makes the right choice. What makes Jake the best leader is the fact that, usually, his choices weigh all of the possible consequences in the best fashion. If Cassie had tried there would have been too many moral hangups. If Marco or Rachel had tried there would have been too few moral hangups. If Tobias had tried...I just sense an utter failure in Tobias as a leader.

6. It was stupid. But, granted, the Animorphs had no idea how vast the Yeerk Pool was or how dangerous their enemies were. There should have been a more thorough investigation into the Yeerk Pool before they went in with only a handful of morphs at their side. Cassie in particular had absolutely no useful defense. Their survival was pure beginners luck (and villain stupidity).

7. I think KA tried to stay as accurate as possible to the various animal experiences throughout the series. I know she met with zookeepers and spoke with animal experts to be as close to realistic as she could. The series idea started as an idea of experiencing how animals view the world, not as an alien invasion, so I think KA felt invested in that aspect of the series.

8. I think in the end I would, but not because I wanted to save the world or any of that stuff. I think that the unbearingly crushing weight of responsibility that followed seeing a creature die after putting his last hope in me would force me into action. I've always been the type of person who shoulders responsibility at the drop of a hat and carries through with it. I don't think this would have been any different.

However, I do think I would've eventually reached a moral crisis where my sympathy for the Yeerks would have to be balanced against their invasion force. I have a lot more sympathy for those parasitic alien slugs than I have for the Andalites or even the humans and Earth.

9. I've read bits and pieces of both the original and the reprint in the past two months or so, but I did this mostly from memory. :)

10. Visser Three really annoys me in this book. And most early books. He's just so.....blah. Such a stereotypical villain. We see none of his true brilliance and ruthlessness that we get in some of the Chronicles.

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Offline SuperBlue

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #1 The Invasion
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2011, 12:38:37 PM »
Quote
1.Any thoughts to share on the major characters, Animorphs and aliens, as they appeared in this book? Does anyone stand out as a good development into or contrast from how they appear in later books?

This being the first book, all of the characters were (more or less) outlines of who they'd eventually become. The only exception I'd have to say would be Tobias. The Tobias we have in this book is soooooooooo different from the Tobias we've come to know. And quite frankly, I like this book's Tobias better. I mean I know the big change in personality probably had to do with him becoming a nothlit but Tobias always bored the hell out of me because he was just so whiny, self loathing, and full of angst that only Harry Potter could match. He just seemed like he was there so KA could give us a character to pity (well that and because every team needs a mascot) But honestly, I think I pity him less than I do the other Anis. The Tobias in this book, however, seemed like a generally cheerful and exciting person, even though his life sucked more then it did when he became stuck as a hawk.

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2. In general, what do you think of the premise of the series: Kids fighting body stealing aliens by turning into animal. If you weren't already a fan do you think you'd be drawn to a story set on this notion? How do you explain the books to those who haven't read them?

Honestly, if it weren't for the animals, I probably never would have even touched these books. I'm an anime geek, not sci-fi. So thank God KA decided to include the animal aspect of this series cuz if it were just a group of normal kids fighting aliens, I'd be a little turned off unless they had their own unique powers.


Quote
3. What do you think of Jake's reaction to the mere suggestion that his brother is a controller, in addition to the fact? Is it important that Jake has a personal investment in the fight from book 1?

Jake's reaction was totally understandable. He just realized his idol of a brother will be one of the people that'll try to kill him on a regular basis. Not to mention he's sleeping under the same roof as the enemy. That information would be enough to drive any normal child insane. I don't even know how Jake is able to sleep at night, knowing Tom could waltz in his room t any time and just slip a Yeerk in his ear. If I were him, I would have probably morphed and attacked Tom, when the first opportunity presented itself, and keep him locked up for three days until the Yeerk died. Get him before he got me :XD:

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4.What are your thoughts on Tobias being trapped as a hawk? Do you think it was intentional, a horrible accident, or a convenient mistake?

Despite me not liking Tobias, even I don't think he'd be stupid enough to intentionally trap himself as a hawk, especially since he was so “gung-ho” for being an Animorph and fighting in this war. He must have known how useless he'd be if all he could do was be their friggin eye in the sky. So I'm gonna chalk this up to “convenient mistake”. He was probably happy about being trapped at first but, as future books never fail to remind us, he loses that bit of happiness once he finds out what living as a hawk is really like. Now remember, this is a life he DIDN'T HAVE TO LIVE! The Animorphs were all more than happy to take care of him and let's not forget Ax was never that far away. He didn't have to eat roadkill, live in tree, be bullied by other hawks, or wonder when his next meal would come! He had five people who loved him and he chose to isolate himself from them in favor of a life he never stopped complaining about. So while I don't think he intentionally trapped himself, I do think he intentionally chose to make himself miserable to try and garner pity from his teammates.


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5. Each of the Animorphs assumes a certain role in the group, and Jake is clearly defined as the leader. What do you think of Jake as a leader in this book? Has he done anything in this book that merits or tests this position for him in your mind?

I found it strange that Jake was made leader in this book. He definitely didn't show any leader-like qualities until book #2. I think he was only chosen because nobody else wanted to be. Granted he didn't want to be either but he was outvoted.

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6. Piggybacking on the last two questions: what do you think of the decision of storming the enemy stronghold armed with a few combat morphs, a horse and a bird? Particularly, is it acceptable to let Tobias be "happy with just [his] hawk morph" by either him or Jake?

I thought letting Tobias go in there with just a hawk was the DUMBEST thing Jake could have done. And look where it got Tobias! And let's not get started on Cassie, for whatever reason, not having a battle morph! Her mom works at the Wal-mart of Battle Morphs and she couldn't snag at least one? As Teach said, they survived only because Visser Three's a moron.

Quote
7. In this book Jake acquires and uses his signature Siberian Tiger. What do you think of the portrayal of this animal in this book and throughout the series? Do you think Applegate's descriptions of its abilities and attitudes were accurate or does she exaggerate? What do you envision the experience of being a tiger to be like?

I'm not that big on animal behavior so I'm gonna assume KA's portrayal of the tiger was accurate. The only thing I didn't get was how he was able to control it so easily on his first time morphing it.
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8. Would you have done it? When you were thirteen, or even now, would you agree to get involved in a war, to be carried on in secret against impossible odds with the fate of the world in sway, to possess the powers of anything you touch, at the urging of a dying alien. Would you personally have been willing to become an Animorph?

I think the only reason I wouldn't have ran away as soon as I saw Elfangor's ship is just pure fear. I was a little scaredy cat at 13, in fact I still am. I would have been the selfish ass of the group and take the morphing power, get my family, fake our deaths somehow, and hightail it out of the country and eventually off the planet if I could.

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9. Have you recently read the original, the reprint, or did you do this from memory?

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Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #1 The Invasion
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2011, 01:07:53 PM »
Seeing as Marco is the one that tries his hardest not to let a crappy life get him down, it would be kind of redundant if Tobias was that same way too. Yeah he does get emo, but not without good reason.

I do find it funny that after everything Marco and Jake do, rachel says her group was ready when she knew Tobias and Cassie hadn't done squat. Jake didn't even ask what they were going as. He just assumed they had done what they were supposed to do. I realise he may just not have thought of it as a leader, but just a simple "Okay, what did you get?" should have come up.

Maybe in Cassie's case it was supposed to be kind of a statement that the most peaceful one really is most reluctant to get a battle morph. Her wolf wasn't even originally chosen as a battle morph. She just started using it because it was the first battle capable morph she had that was better than a horse.

Gun ho Tobias certainly didn't have an excuse. Did he honestly think a hawk was going to be good against Hork-Bajir? It seems contradictory that the one who's most willing to fight is goofing around too.


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Offline SuperBlue

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #1 The Invasion
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2011, 02:14:43 PM »
Seeing as Marco is the one that tries his hardest not to let a crappy life get him down, it would be kind of redundant if Tobias was that same way too.

There is a lot that could have been done to set Tobias apart from Marco if they were both characters that didn't let their bad situations keep them down. Especially since their "crappy lives" were completely different. I'm not saying Tobias doesn't deserve to be all mopey about being a hawk(another reason I don't think he did it on purpose) but when all of his books are basically "Waaaah! Life as a hawk is so hard even though I'm finally surrounded by people who care about me, one of which is a blood relative, but choose to ignore them when they wanna help" There really was no excuse for Tobias to think he had to live the rest of his life like a bird(as Rachel pointed out to him) I think it was all just his pathetic attempt to get attention, which would have been alright if this part of him only lasted for book #3 but it didn't. Tobias stayed like this throughout the whole series.

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Maybe in Cassie's case it was supposed to be kind of a statement that the most peaceful one really is most reluctant to get a battle morph. Her wolf wasn't even originally chosen as a battle morph. She just started using it because it was the first battle capable morph she had that was better than a horse.

I'll take that but it was still a dumb thing to do on Cassie's part. Like Tobias, she's another character that KA could have written better. She definitely doesn't deserve the hate that she gets from most of the fanbase. But KA always has her doing the most idiotic things to try and preserve her morals. And on top of that, every mistake she makes ends up inadvertently helping the Animorphs, making fans believe she's a Mary Sue who can do no wrong. I love Cassie but hated how she was made out to be Ms. Perfect.
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Offline Mr. Guy36

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #1 The Invasion
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2011, 09:18:30 AM »
Quote
In general, what do you think of the premise of the series: Kids fighting body stealing aliens by turning into animal. If you weren't already a fan do you think you'd be drawn to a story set on this notion? How do you explain the books to those who haven't read them?
I'd agree with Teach on this one, in that it's a war story first. I personally don't think SF is even a genre per se, because just calling something SF glosses over everything else. It's about kids and war, in a setting with aliens and morphing.

Quote
What do you think of Jake's reaction to the mere suggestion that his brother is a controller, in addition to the fact? Is it important that Jake has a personal investment in the fight from book 1?
As the de facto leader, it works well for Jake to be the first one with a direct connection to the fight. And I do think the reaction is appropriate, as Jake is established to have had a good relationship with Tom that has been fading. Realizing that Tom is no longer himself really shatters him.

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Piggybacking on the last two questions: what do you think of the decision of storming the enemy stronghold armed with a few combat morphs, a horse and a bird? Particularly, is it acceptable to let Tobias be "happy with just [his] hawk morph" by either him or Jake?
They're still naïve kids at this point who really don't know what they're up against. I see it as a typical teenage response, which has the result of kicking them out of their old world and firmly into the new one.

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Would you have done it? When you were thirteen, or even now, would you agree to get involved in a war, to be carried on in secret against impossible odds with the fate of the world in sway, to possess the powers of anything you touch, at the urging of a dying alien. Would you personally have been willing to become an Animorph?
I'd like to think I'd do it... I wouldn't want to walk away after seeing Elfangor that night. But honestly, I'm not sure. I don't think anyone can really say what they'll do in a genuine life-or-death situation.

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Have you recently read the original, the reprint, or did you do this from memory?
Memory, but I did read the reprint about 3 months ago
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 11:51:57 AM by Mr. Guy36 »

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Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #1 The Invasion
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2011, 12:02:41 PM »
Yeah, it's a war story, but hope was also a strong theme in the early part. The ending doesn't really inspire much hope. This first book is quite dar, then over time it gets lighter like when they took Ax to the movie, and skunked Visser Three. Then it got darker again, and the hope theme got forgotten so they could push the War is Hell theme. Something every smart person with cursory knowledge of war already knows.


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Offline SuperBlue

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #1 The Invasion
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2011, 03:33:52 PM »
If we're going for a decay in the amount of "hope" as the series progressed, we COULD chalk that up to the Anis transition from a ragtag group of kids who are in way over their heads, to full blown guerrilla soldiers. Once the war aspect REALLY kicked in, it replaced the hope and happiness with grittiness and bittersweet (sometimes just plain unhappy) endings.
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Offline pandas795

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #1 The Invasion
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2011, 06:56:24 PM »
1. The obvious one i can think of is Marco, he was always hesitant to fight until book 5

2. When I first heard the plot, i thought it was weird, but when i read the books, i was like "Hey, it ain't that bad" If I wasn't a fan, i would still read the books to see more about the strange plot. I would tell someone who hasn't read them that it's out of the norms from the other "alien invasion" books.

3. If someone told me my brother was a controller, i would get annoyed at first, i would say "That's impossible, i know him well" and jake found out Tom was a controller, he was crushed and made it his mission to free him.

4. I always thought of it as a convient mistake, Tobias always helped out his comrades with his amzing sight and hearing.

5. SKIPPY

6. Storming to me, wasn't a good idae....they JUST got the morphing power, and they were still learning to use them. There was nothing esle to do since Tobias was trapped in his hawk morph. They tried to use him the best they can.

7.  A tiger shows power and leadership(?). Jake might have similer qualities, so that's why Applegate used a tiger has his battlemorph.

8. Autlly, i would run away the soon as i see the alien O_o

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #1 The Invasion
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2011, 11:14:25 PM »
Vote on what? I don't see a poll :(

I looked through the original tonight...after spending so much time in the fandom, the thought speech KASU definitely sticks out now lol

I have to think longer about the other questions.

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #1 The Invasion
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2011, 11:24:25 PM »
 :huh: You can't see the poll at the top of the thread?
hmm, how annoying. May want to ask someone on staff about that.
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« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 02:33:04 PM by RYTX »
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Offline SkyMorpher

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #1 The Invasion
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2011, 11:21:39 PM »
It's there now.

I think sci-fi is a genre myself.

A lot of you have already expressed the things I'd say to the questions....I need to get here earlier lol

Blue Lantern, you have me curious. Why don't you like Tobias?



Offline AllyVP

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #1 The Invasion
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2011, 12:17:00 AM »
WOOT another re-read!! must catch up.....


   1. Any thoughts to share on the major characters, Animorphs and aliens, as they appeared in this book? Does anyone stand out as a good development into or contrast from how they appear in later books?

Their eventual development makes sense. we see glimpses of their future selves all over the place. 
Rachel screams <Puny little nothing! You attack ME?>
Marco is constantly distrustful, resourceful and catches the little things.  He is the first to realized Tom is a Controller.  I love when he threw the bedspread over Jake after Jake hit him.  Marco could never take Jake in a fair fight, so he made the fight unfair.  Classic Marco style.  It foreshadowed how useful his tactical skills could be.
We'll get to Jake in question #5
Tobias is really interesting as well.  I always saw him as on the more compassionate side, shown when he did not want to kill to eat.  So the fact that he was the most gung-ho about fighting this war shows how deeply Elfangor's sacrifice affected him.
I must admit, I rather enjoyed Cassie's little speech about calling on the spirits of the animals like the American Indians did/do.  Cassie's role does not seem out of place yet, because they are all in favor of "a clean war." In fact, they don't see how it is going to become anything else. 


   2. In general, what do you think of the premise of the series: Kids fighting body stealing aliens by turning into animals?  If you weren't already a fan do you think you'd be drawn to a story set on this notion? How do you explain the books to those who haven't read them?

Explaining the stories without sounding weird is hard.  I do not describe it as morphing teenagers protecting the world from brain-stealing aliens.  I usually describe it more along the lines of a story that was written for pre-teens, but can easily be enjoyed by adults because of how the story was presented.  It is not a comic book hero story, where the good guy defeats the bad and saves his girlfriend and everyone loves him.  It is a truthful war story, where morals are compromised and sometimes forgotten and people betray and die.

If I was not a fan, I would not be drawn to these books immediately.  I love tigers, and I vividly remember the cover of "The Attack" drawing my eye.  But, as a twenty-year-old, I would pass by in search for something longer and more "adult-esque."  If I read the summary, it might depend.  Some (of the summaries) read like a comic book with no complexities.  Others clearly communicate the depth and then, I might read it.

   3. What do you think of Jake's reaction to the mere suggestion that his brother is a controller, in addition to the fact? Is it important that Jake has a personal investment in the fight from book 1?

His reaction makes perfect sense.  He was essentially told that his big brother, his idol, is not himself anymore.  I think that Jake is angry at first because he is scared, and the idea that he didn't notice this change horrifies him.  It is clear in those first chapters that Jake would not have continued fighting if it wasn't for the simple drive of saving Tom.  Much like how Marco's drive later becomes saving his mother.

   4. What are your thoughts on Tobias being trapped as a hawk? Do you think it was intentional, a horrible accident, or a convenient mistake?

Convenient mistake that he put little effort into rectifying.  Maybe he found excuses for hiding places (for demorphing) not being good enough.  Maybe he convinced himself that the limit had already passed before it actually had, and thus did not try to demorph when it was possible. 
The line that stands out to me most about this is when Tobias says "It's just total, absolute freedom."  And Jake knew.  He didn't know what he knew.  Tobias had never been as happy as he was when he was in that hawk morph the first few times.  He talks about going back to human is like a prison.  Of course, that's because he had  a choice.  Take the choice away, and suddenly even a winged body can be a prison.
I don't think he knew how bad it would be.  He thought that with wings, he could never be as miserable as he was in his crap life.  He was caught up in the high (no pun intended).

   5. Each of the Animorphs assumes a certain role in the group, and Jake is clearly defined as the leader. What do you think of Jake as a leader in this book? Has he done anything in this book that merits or tests this position for him in your mind?

Jake was one lucky bastard. They all were.  By all accounts, they should have been dead.  They certainly would have been if they had attempted this stunt later, when the Yeerks had wised up a bit.
But he shows signs of being a good leader, if an untrained one already.  He feels something wrong about Tobias' tendency to spend too long in the hawk morph.  He gives instructions without bossing, appropriate of a 13 year old ringleader, not the "30" year old general he becomes.  Most important, he is the only common factor all of the others have.  He is, literally, the center.

   6. Piggybacking on the last two questions: what do you think of the decision of storming the enemy stronghold armed with a few combat morphs, a horse and a bird? Particularly, is it acceptable to let Tobias be "happy with just [his] hawk morph" by either him or Jake?

Again, they are VERY lucky.  The Yeerks were unprepared, having thought they had eradicated every threat in the area.  There was absolutely zero strategy, and I'll say it again, if they had attempted a stunt like this much later, they would have been dead so fast.
Tobias should have gotten a better morph.  BUT, as it happens many times in the series, those eyes came in useful.  Without his eyes, they may have not saved Cassie in time.  And getting a better morph was his responsibility, not Jake's.  He was the one most in favor of the fight, after all.

   7.  In this book Jake acquires and uses his signature Siberian Tiger. What do you think of the portrayal of this animal in this book and throughout the series? Do you think Applegate's descriptions of its abilities and attitudes were accurate or does she exaggerate? What do you envision the experience of being a tiger to be like?

Jake describes the tiger as "confident" when he's acquiring it.  Applegate put a lot of effort into choosing their combat morphs, and it shows.  As for the portrayal of its instincts, I have thought about that.  I don't think the tiger would have those overwhelming predator instincts that some other creatures have.  it is too efficient a killer to constantly need to be trying. 

   8. Would you have done it? When you were thirteen, or even now, would you agree to get involved in a war, to be carried on in secret against impossible odds with the fate of the world in sway, to possess the powers of anything you touch, at the urging of a dying alien. Would you personally have been willing to become an Animorph?

See, that's a tough question.  I don't think anyone knows the answer to something like that until they are faced with it.  Would you kill one to save a thousand?  Would you kill a thousand to save someone you love?  Would you kill in self defense?  But people have always told me I'm a "mama bear."  Mess with my friends or family and you may find yourself in very hot water.  BUT, If I did decide to not do it, you can bet that I would constantly second-guess that decision.

   9. Have you recently read the original, the reprint, or did you do this from memory?

Read the original!!

   10. Anything else?

I agree with Teach.  The Visser was a bad comic book villian for the first few  books.

Offline SuperBlue

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #1 The Invasion
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2011, 05:09:06 PM »

A lot of you have already expressed the things I'd say to the questions....I need to get here earlier lol

Blue Lantern, you have me curious. Why don't you like Tobias?


All my posts in this thread pretty much explains why I don't like Tobias XD
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Offline Aquilai

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #1 The Invasion
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2011, 08:17:33 PM »
   1. Any thoughts to share on the major characters, Animorphs and aliens, as they appeared in this book? Does anyone stand out as a good development into or contrast from how they appear in later books?
KA writes all the characters fairly well in this book. (Well she has to - Premier Animorph book and everything!) There's the right amount of attention given to all the characters appropriate from Jake's perspective. The jitters and nerves as they plan to storm the Yeerk Pool for the first time is lifelike. The unpreparedness not even having tried to practice morph their "battle morphs" is very consistent with their lack of experience. To them this is the mission that could well be their last, no need to return to the Yeerk Pool. Their naivete is very fitting for the beginning of their guerilla war and is great development later on.

There's a clear establishment of Marco and Rachel's difference of sacrifice that carries true all the way through to the series finale. Marco clearly considers his family more so than Rachel. Rachel who wouldn't deliberately say "To hell with what my family will think" but is willing to sacrifice herself more easily than Marco. Tobias is similar to Rachel, he clearly believes that he has nothing to lose yet when it comes to the battle Rachel is the first to eagerly fight even though Tobias has been the one pushing for it but only distracts one enemy.

Not too much to say about Jake that hasn't already said about his leadership skills. It's clearly very obvious to everyone that Jake is the deciding factor for their decisions. Cassie is the psychological glue that keeps the group from slipping apart whilst Jake is the foundations that everyone relies on. A constant theme throughout the series.  The first clear sign (in the mission) that without Cassie the team starts to unstick is when Marco offhandedly insults Tobias and immediately afterwards Tobias flies away leaving Jake calling after him, potentially alerting more controllers sooner.

   3. What do you think of Jake's reaction to the mere suggestion that his brother is a controller, in addition to the fact? Is it important that Jake has a personal investment in the fight from book 1?
Without Tom being involved they might not have become aware of the Sharing so early on. They wouldn't have gone to the Sharing, Cassie wouldn't be caught sneaking around, then would not be brought to the Pool. All this I think merely delays the inevitable that Jake would have realised that there is much more at stake than simply ignoring the ability to morph.

For KA Tom is a catalyst that speeds up the beginning but it's an inevitability that Jake would have been involved. He would regret letting Tobias go off on his own considering Rachel would go too which would also drag Cassie into it too. He's not like Marco and can ignore so many of his friends risk their lives whilst he sits back and pretends nothing is happening. An alternative is that one of them gets caught and then they all become involved as they try to escape and survive individually and then as a team.

   4. What are your thoughts on Tobias being trapped as a hawk? Do you think it was intentional, a horrible accident, or a convenient mistake?
KA deliberately wrote Tobias to be trapped. For Tobias morphing is his first chance at escape from the depressing life that he lives. He is clearly described to be glowing as if for the first time in his life something good has happened. To bring the story back down to Earth he can't be "too happy". There has to be a catch.

As for if he deliberately got stuck as a hawk I don't think so. He's not stupid enough to think that being a hawk is all he'll ever need, he was the main proponent for fighting the Yeerks to begin with. What happened was he didn't leave in time to escape. You could ask, "Surely he could find somewhere to morph?" but I think he couldn't because he was scared of getting caught and the Yeerks were already on high alert. By the time he could get out it was too late, he was ignorantly, already in morph before they even got to the Pool.

A "convenient mistake" would mean that his life would have been better as a hawk than as a morph capable person. I'm not sure this would ever have been the case. Sure he didn't have to go to school any more and he could spend time doing whatever he wanted but there is no denying his usefulness being morph capable. Going to school like the other Animorphs is a small price to pay for having another person able to morph.

   6. Piggybacking on the last two questions: what do you think of the decision of storming the enemy stronghold armed with a few combat morphs, a horse and a bird? Particularly, is it acceptable to let Tobias be "happy with just [his] hawk morph" by either him or Jake?
It was reckless and very childlike. Isn't that what they are? As it has been mentioned they were ridiculously lucky (ass pull) to have escaped with their lives never mind freeing someone. They had planned to break into the Yeerk pool but that was it. What were they going to do afterwards with their hoped-for freed people? As mentioned, they hadn't even practised with their combat morphs. It really shows just how naive as young kids they were but this goes really well with their development as they grow into guerilla warriors, soldiers and leaders.

   8. Would you have done it? When you were thirteen, or even now, would you agree to get involved in a war, to be carried on in secret against impossible odds with the fate of the world in sway, to possess the powers of anything you touch, at the urging of a dying alien. Would you personally have been willing to become an Animorph?
I think so. As a child it's so easy to think in black and white. Really easy to decide that suddenly something is the most important thing in the world. Then suddenly they realise gymnastics, basketball and maths are not their biggest problems. Unlike in fiction however as a kid I'm sure I'd have been captured or worse. (Dead worse than controller, can't come back from that.)

As an adult (ha!) it's a good question... Unlike as a kid when school isn't something you can just quit without affecting your family too, adults can always quit their jobs and fight the good fight full time. Being morph capable and in a sense "above the law" really opens some alleyways. If you bear in mind that technology has also improved (CCTVs, camera-phones, forensics etc) so it'd be more difficult to get away with morphing in public or attacks against Yeerk strongholds, it would definitely be much harder.
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Offline matthew

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #1 The Invasion
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2012, 07:42:40 PM »
1. For the most part, as in many of the early books, the characters are black and white, good and bad.  When I think of that, I think of  Visser Three and how much of a regular old, boring villian he is here.  There`s not really much character development here because everyone is being introduced.

2. The basic premise has FAIL written all over it.  It is what KA does with it that makes this series so good.  I`m really not sure if I would have picked up on this series if I was not youngish when I started.  I never have explained the books to other people, which is a good thing because I would do an epic fail at it.

3. Jake`s reaction is totally understandable, because his idol turns out to be the enemy. I don`t think he would have stayed committed to the fight if Tom wasn`t a controller.  It is what keeps him going in the beginning.

4. I think that it was a was on purpose and an accident combined.  Tobias was put in the situation, and I think he just let it go, if that makes sense.

5. Like someone said before, Jake had a natural ability to lead.  But he doesn`t quite know what he is dealing with or what he is doing.  The Animorphs were lucky that Visser Three was a moron, or else they would have died by the end of this book.

6. It was a pretty bad idea to attack with those morphs.  Of course, they didn`t know what they were dealing with.  Having Tobias as a hawk was a terrible idea.  He should have gotten a real battle morph. *ducks*

7. I don`t really know, but I would assume it was portrayed somewhat accurately because I know KA met with some people that knew that kind of stuff.

8. Nope, I probably would have panicked and been killed or infested when I blurted it out to some controller.

9. Most of it is from memory.

10. Rating: This book just introduces everything. It does have some good moments like Tom trying to kill Visser Three in his Fire Monster of Doom morph with his fists.  The only real problem is the occasional blah-i-ness. For example, Visser Three. Enough said.  Animorphs does get off to a good start, however.  Number One The Invasion gets a 4/5

Offline Alan Fangor

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #1 The Invasion
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2012, 05:33:22 PM »
I re-read this book few days ago. It's one of the best, imho. It's the longest book of the normal series, and it introduces almost everything : the Animorphs, the four basic alien races (andalites, yeerks, hork-bajir, taxxon), the only two important human-controller (Tom and Chapman), the main villain, the Sharing, the Zoo, Wildlife clinic, bug fighter, blade ship, dracon beams, kandrona, yeerk pool, blue box,...and there are the first morphs, the first battle, first raid in the yeerk pool, first capture, first encounter with Visser III and his alien morphs, Tobias trapped in hawk morph.

Besides, in this book there are some unique situations : a brief overview of jake, rachel, tobias, cassie, marco as normal kids, Tobias totally human, the only time we can see Tom free in the series, the only appearance of Elfangor together with the animorphs.

Well, first time I read, almost 14 years ago, probably I didn't like it very much, but then, when I re-read it some months later, I loved it. I think it's probably because I really liked animals at the time, and it was amazing to read about kids who become animals. 

Re-reading it after so many years, I noticed something I didn't the first time : with the hindsight, there were clear signs that Tobias was going to become a nothlit. And the relationship between rachel and tobias basically starts here...I erroneously remembered that it began later in the series.
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Offline RYTX

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #1 The Invasion
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2012, 04:48:59 PM »
With just on 9 weeks till this wraps up, I'm gonna start answering my own bloody questions:

   1. On this last read, no one really stands out as a character. Visser Three seems slightly more cheesey, but the rest of them, especially the kids just didn't come off as fleshed out at all in this, and really the next book. Could kinda feel that KA hadn't hit her stride yet. Correction: Elfangor comes off sorta larger than life, but once we get TAC that's totally undone so.... One other thing: Hork-Bajir also didn't vibe with me as fighters in this book, but Taxxons were almost cartoonish. It's really not until we start getting Taxxon POV in TAC that I start take them seriously.

   2. I know it's a war story, but that's not how it sells, especially this early. I love the animal morphing, and think the body stealing works really well to keep the fight longer without feeling dragged out.  In the past I've explained it based on abilities of both sides, but never able to articulate the depth that comes later. Which is why I've only sold one person on them, and that was only temporary

   3. I was surprised by the aggression. Disbelieve or upset or denial I expected, in my mind aggression is too close to acknowledgment, and I didn't think he could acknowledge it when Marco suggested it. And then he goes to upset when it's proven. Weird.  It's great for the story that he had such a personal investment, but a part of me feels that it wasn't what it could have been because a)Marco had a similar situation and b)Jake had to deal with leadership.  I think Tom really should have been bigger in Jake's books later, since all the while they were still under the same roof. It would have been great to have Tom show up as a ranking antagonist for more than just the end-lot of lost opportunities there.

   4. I'll call it convenient mistake for now. I think it stupid he went in morphed, odd he didn't at least try to get out while hidden, but given that was their first run, understandable that he loose track and not want to risk too much more.

   5. Jake doesn't do anything to impress me as a leader yet, but I really do feel for him already. What and how he's fighting is completely novel and so much more than anyone else, really ever, has had to bear. I think he gets off on a lot of luck, but as lame as it sounds he's at his best, as a leader and story teller, when he trust himself (mostly). It's too early for him to do those long internal monologues about the pangs of leadership-which is good. In some of his books they are overdone

   6. I can pardon Jake since it's this early on, but Tobias? He says he wants to fight, and he goes in only with bird? That continues to frustrate me, and makes really wonder about his being trapped. He's not a fighter by nature, but you don't need to be to know that you don't bring a knife to a gun fight. Also, wtf where he and Cassie doing at The Gardens?!

   7. I love the portrayal of this morph above all others in the series. Deadly, elegant, symbolic, respected by his enemies, and the acquiring scene is one of my favorites. Maybe it's my own misgivings, I've had cats my whole life but I still think this is one of the ones she really got right in attitude and ability. Tiger in this series really blows me away. That said, I do think there must be some exaggerations. Somewhere later it says a tiger out does a Hork-Bajir in close quarters, and I don't see how a HB couldn't bring blades to bear on a large cat.

   8. Of course I can't know what I'd do, but I really think I would not have stuck around. Seeing the ship I would have retreated, as a kid gone screaming for help, and now probably just watch it from a distance. At worst take the morphing power and run,  at best I'd hear him out, but probably would bail if I got out of the first fight alive.

   9. Haven't read the reprints, but it's nice they're cleaning up them up. Series deserves some attention to detail.
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Offline Adam

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #1 The Invasion
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2013, 07:11:53 AM »
Since I have been re-reading the series (now upto 13), I may aswell give my reviews of these books.

Questions
   1. Any thoughts to share on the major characters, Animorphs and aliens, as they appeared in this book? Does anyone stand out as a good development into or contrast from how they appear in later books?


Due to the huge amount of information and the number of events within the book, there was obviously little space to really get indepth into the characters. However, there is just enough development that we already know what kind of characters they represent. Further character development would have to wait for later books.

As mentioned plenty of times, things start off rather cliched and black-and-white. The good guy alien is brutally murdered by the evil alien, and little back story is given to either side. Visse Three comes across as a sort of James Bond villain. He is totally 100% evil here, complete with evil laughs. The Hork-Bajir and Taxxons are only really physically described, and Elfangor provided only the briefest bit of info for both. The Taxxons never really developed to more than "big disgusting canniballistic worms throughout the series. Elfangor's insistance of pity for the Hork-Bajir is pretty much disregarded by the Animorphs until later on in the series, and until then, they are just seen as deadly shock troops.

Tom is shown as a typical big brother, at least in Jake's head, and his portrayal as a controller is developed quite well, and gives a good idea of how controllers act.

   2. In general, what do you think of the premise of the series: Kids fighting body stealing aliens by turning into animals?  If you weren't already a fan do you think you'd be drawn to a story set on this notion? How do you explain the books to those who haven't read them?

Nowadays, I wouldn't give it a read, based on the premise. The again, even when I read the series for the first time, I was not the premise but the book covers that started me reading!

To explain to other people, all I have to say is that it is a lot more complex and thought-provoking than one might think. They are well-written and had a great influence on my life. The premise seems a little silly when put so simply, but it is pulled off beautifully.

   3. What do you think of Jake's reaction to the mere suggestion that his brother is a controller, in addition to the fact? Is it important that Jake has a personal investment in the fight from book 1?

The Animorphs need a reason to take up such a big burden, and the loss of a family member to the Yeerks provides a realistic reason for them to fight.

Jake's reaction is probably what you would expect, but from now on, Jake takes bad news much more calmly, and I think starting a fight was a little out of character.

   4. What are your thoughts on Tobias being trapped as a hawk? Do you think it was intentional, a horrible accident, or a convenient mistake?

I don't think we'll ever really know what was going on in Tobias' head. His approach to the idea of war with the Yeerks seemed enthusiastic, definitely moreso than any of the other characters at this point, so deliberately trapping himself in a morph and basically removing himself from the fight seems strange.

Of all the characters, he got the most development, I believe.

   5. Each of the Animorphs assumes a certain role in the group, and Jake is clearly defined as the leader. What do you think of Jake as a leader in this book? Has he done anything in this book that merits or tests this position for him in your mind?


The appointment of Jake as a leader comes from out of nowhere, and is explained because "he just is". He does little to merit it at this point, and this remains until later in the series. I think giving him a leader position is something that should have been earned later on. Saying that, as the series progresses, it becomes obvious that he was the right choice - Rachel is far too gung ho and often seems to abuse the morphing power, Cassie struggles with important decisions, Marco initially doesn't even want to fight, and Tobias is stuck as a hawk, and seems rather unstable.

   6. Piggybacking on the last two questions: what do you think of the decision of storming the enemy stronghold armed with a few combat morphs, a horse and a bird? Particularly, is it acceptable to let Tobias be "happy with just [his] hawk morph" by either him or Jake?

The Animorphs, at this stage, had no idea what they were getting themselves into, and only when they entered the Yeerk pool did it start to dawn on them. They weren't prepared, and the mission was a failure. Understandably, the following missions were a lot smaller in scale, and it would be a while before they took on the Yeerk pool again.

Again, with Tobias, they were naive and didn't realise how unprepared they were. This mission was just a huge learning curve.

   7.  In this book Jake acquires and uses his signature Siberian Tiger. What do you think of the portrayal of this animal in this book and throughout the series? Do you think Applegate's descriptions of its abilities and attitudes were accurate or does she exaggerate? What do you envision the experience of being a tiger to be like?

As we know, Applegate was never a Tiger. Then again, neither have any of us (I hope). She could only make educated guesses as to the "feel" of any particular species, but I feel that she did a good job.

   8. Would you have done it? When you were thirteen, or even now, would you agree to get involved in a war, to be carried on in secret against impossible odds with the fate of the world in sway, to possess the powers of anything you touch, at the urging of a dying alien. Would you personally have been willing to become an Animorph?

I would feel like it was my duty! I wouldn't like it, but when my species needs me, etc...

   9. Have you recently read the original, the reprint, or did you do this from memory?

I read the original from an e-book over a week ago.

   10. Anything else?

Overall, the book is an adequate scene-setter. It gives enough information to keep readers interested, but at this stage there isn't enough space to flesh everything out. This book is a skeleton, basically. Some things take a few more books to develop, and some aren't addressed until much later on, when the series blurs the lines between black and white.
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Offline Azguard

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #1 The Invasion
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2013, 03:49:26 PM »
I need to start rereading these!
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Offline Tim Bruening

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #1 The Invasion
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2013, 01:41:48 PM »

   8. Would you have done it? When you were thirteen, or even now, would you agree to get involved in a war, to be carried on in secret against impossible odds with the fate of the world in sway, to possess the powers of anything you touch, at the urging of a dying alien. Would you personally have been willing to become an Animorph?
I think so. As a child it's so easy to think in black and white. Really easy to decide that suddenly something is the most important thing in the world. Then suddenly they realise gymnastics, basketball and maths are not their biggest problems. Unlike in fiction however as a kid I'm sure I'd have been captured or worse. (Dead worse than controller, can't come back from that.)

As an adult (ha!) it's a good question... Unlike as a kid when school isn't something you can just quit without affecting your family too, adults can always quit their jobs and fight the good fight full time. Being morph capable and in a sense "above the law" really opens some alleyways. If you bear in mind that technology has also improved (CCTVs, camera-phones, forensics etc) so it'd be more difficult to get away with morphing in public or attacks against Yeerk strongholds, it would definitely be much harder.
[/quote]

I imagine that fully adult Animorphs would have practiced their battle morphs before assaulting the Yeerk Pool, so might have escaped with Tom!