Author Topic: Thoughts on the ending  (Read 22493 times)

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Offline Chad32

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Re: Thoughts on the ending
« Reply #345 on: May 26, 2010, 06:40:55 AM »
Not if it's in a negative way.

And how would realism be boring? Was Saving private Ryan boring?

Like I said, it's inconsistent with the rest of the series. Rachel only died because the author wanted her to die, and it was done poorly.


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Offline Aluminator (Kit)

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Re: Thoughts on the ending
« Reply #346 on: May 26, 2010, 10:21:55 AM »
I've gotta back Chad on this one, for the most part. I feel the ending was relatively well done if you look at it alone, but looking at it with the rest of the series, it absolutely does not fit. You can't deny that Animorphs really changed direction over the course of the series, with the overall message going from one of <Hope...> to one of "war sucks!" Honestly, the former is something I don't feel we see enough today, and the first 30 or so books (which were also more character-driven than the later books) are far more appealing to me than the war-driven latter half of the series. Whatever else you can say about the ending, it will never really feel like Animorphs to me.

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Offline A ghost you know

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Re: Thoughts on the ending
« Reply #347 on: May 26, 2010, 01:31:21 PM »
Quote from: Kit2 Hawk2
You can't deny that Animorphs really changed direction over the course of the series, with the overall message going from one of <Hope...> to one of "war sucks!"
I felt that too; the series grew very, very dark as it progressed. However, I think that's actually realistic. In the first few books, the Animorphs were new to the war and still hopeful. Later, as the bitter truth set in, they became hard and bitter themselves.
The only inconsistency is that Elfangor was as young and inexperienced as the Animorphs at the beginning, and faced many of the same horrors they did, yet he never succumbed to bitterness. (Although, he also never entered a Yeerk pool afaik; there's a reason the Anis describe it as "**** on earth", and it's likely that scarred them more than any battles ever did)
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Offline AbstractIndigo

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Re: Thoughts on the ending
« Reply #348 on: May 28, 2010, 05:37:06 AM »
Incoming wall of text

[spoiler]I have to say having given this subject quite a bit of thought, I was deeply disappointed with the ending. I can fully sympathise that to draw the series to a satisfying conclusion is a very tricky task. Unlike some, I don't view KA as a bad writer in light of this; I think she should be commended for creating such an enjoyable universe with characters that the reader can empathise with. I do however think KA stumbled at the final hurdle, and that the ending seems rushed and not particularly logical.

Whilst it is indeed KA's universe and she can write how she sees fit, readers are not forced to accept an author's vision of a universe. At any time readers can refuse to accept the terms and reject something as part of the canon. However a well-written universe persuades the reader to accept this view. If KA kills a character, I don't accept it because she - the author - tells me to. I accept it because through the narrative she has constructed, she convinces me it is the logical thing to happen in the universe, and ultimately this universe is one I find entertaining.

To that end, I personally reject The Beginning as part of the series canon, and I will explain why. I do however respect KA's own vision, and those that agree with her vision, but it is not one I share based on the universe she has established over the course of the series.

My rejection of the canonicity is certainly not merely because KA kills Rachel; characters have died in many of the works I have come to enjoy over the years and I have accepted them, even if I find them sad, simply because they follow the continuity and established logic of the universe. For example, Dumbledore's death in HP follows on logically. I might not like it, but I readily accept it as part of the canon of the HP universe because it follows. It makes perfect sense.

This doesn't follow with Rachel's death, because it was entirely avoidable by half-decent planning. Something Jake managed to show for 52 books, during which he took part in countless battles. Whilst it would be entirely unrealistic if Animorphs was real, this was part of the suspension of disbelief. Like the morphing technology, readers accept the - at times improbable - repeated survival of the major characters whilst many others die around them because the series has always been focused on these characters, their goals, motivations, actions, and thoughts.

The reader has to implicitly accept this as part of reading the series; if they didn't, they'd simply stop reading. This is part of the terms of the suspension of disbelief. Killing such a character at the final hurdle violates the terms of this, unless the author is able to convincingly justify the decision. This is before we even consider the manner in which this occurred.

The main themes behind the characters are at the core of the Animorphs series, and used to explore the human condition. Winning the war was secondary to the reader; it was this exploration and interaction of the characters that was at the heart of the books; the war was simply a backdrop to do this. Killing off a character because "war is nasty" does not follow from these themes; it is a non sequitur.

KA also attacks strawmen in her justification on the ending, arguing that readers wanted a perfect fairy-tale ending. Whilst some undoubtedly did want this, I feel it is fair to say that the vast majority were not asking for such an ending, and it would have been deeply unsatisfying. I personally would have had Tom killed off for that bittersweet ending. I would have had Jake break down after the immense psychological trauma, now the situation is finally over. I would have had him struggle to reconcile with Cassie afterwards in response.

I would juxtapose this against Rachel and Tobias's relationship by having Tobias successfully help Rachel come to terms with the end of the war, and the changes that had occurred to her during it. It wouldn't have been a fairy-tale ending where everyone walks off smiling in to the sunset. It would show the cost the war had on the characters, and it would give a chance to explore the recovery. In a series filled with destruction, blood, sweat, and tears, there is absolutely no need to destroy one of the few positive things merely for the sake of pointing out that war is horrible and has costs. There certainly isn't a need to do so when by doing this you then destroy the motifs behind an entire series of books.

One should also consider that there are survivors of wars. There are men and women who have suffered immensely, but they do recover. It takes strength of character, and support, but these brave men and women succeed. The Animorphs ending conversely does not show this, at odds with the strength characters have displayed for 53 books. Would this not be a far better and consistent theme to end on?

The state of the characters after the war is not encouraging. The one person who gains the most and suffered the least goes on to live a dull existence. Everyone else loses something. There is no struggle to rebuild. No themes of love and friendship allowing terrible situations to be overcome, which is at the very core of the books. It's simply a tale of needless destruction and misery, and the sole justification is a point that could be readily achieved in other ways, already features in any case, and because KA wanted to get across a very bleak message. It is the very antithesis of the core themes in the Animophs series.

KA's other justification for Rachel's death is that Tobius must remain sad. He's always been unhappy and this must remain the status quo. What kind of message is this to send? That those that suffer immense hardship should just give up because they will never be happy and it is pointless to try? This is not only repulsive, but again, the antithesis of the themes of love, friendship, and hope that drive the series.

And what of the other Animorphs? One can presume that James acts as KA's mouthpiece when he rightly declares that their lives have value too despite their disabilities, yet KA kills them off by sending them off on a suicidal death charge, with barely anyone noticing. Ironically KA only succeeds in getting the message across that such people are disposable and unimportant here, at odds with the message earlier on in the series.

There's also the finale itself. This comes almost out of nowhere and is essentially deus ex machina, a second fight to end on as a cliff-hanger, and a very cheap and unsatisfying reason to bring characters back together after destroying their relationships. This is deeply unsatisfying as a plot device, and feels very rushed.

This issue is very polarising. Whatever view you personally hold, I respect your right to feel that way, and at the end of the day, I feel this is an issue that everyone has to decide for themselves. Hopefully this has been useful for those of the opposite view to understand the rationale behind those of us that disagree with the ending.[/spoiler]

Offline Chad32

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Re: Thoughts on the ending
« Reply #349 on: May 28, 2010, 07:58:11 AM »
I agree with everything. KA is not a bad writer. She just isn't good at ending a series once she's moved onto the next big thing. I said this before when someone actually said she was a horrible writer. she is a really good writer, but she lost interest in the series before she ended it, and it suffered for it.

Yes killing Rachel went against what was established in the series, and she began attacking strawmen after most fans hated it.

Personally I wouldn't kill Tom off, but I would have him be upset that Jake didn't save him for three years. We never got anything on Tom's views late in the series, especially after he finds out Jake knew the whole time.


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Offline Aluminator (Kit)

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Re: Thoughts on the ending
« Reply #350 on: May 28, 2010, 10:31:27 AM »
Exactly. It might be a decent read as a standalone story, but after (52 regular series + 4 MegaMorphs + 4 Chronicles = 60) books, it is most certainly not Animorphs as we've come to know it. Granted, I tend to be pretty harsh on the ghostwritten books in particular (my standard comment is that I started to lose interest in the series "somewhere in the thirties," and honestly, I don't feel any part of the last half of the series can touch the quality of the first half), but, biases aside, the disconnect between the ending and the rest of the series should be fairly evident, even to those who appreciated it more than I did.

There's a limit to our ability to "reject the canonicity" of the ending, though, because that is what was written. It's what was put down by the author. It's the only ending that the majority of the fanbase will ever know. It is, effectively, what really happened, and like it or not, you've still got to accept it to that degree.

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Offline Chad32

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Re: Thoughts on the ending
« Reply #351 on: May 28, 2010, 10:49:13 AM »
Well it IS the canon ending. There's really no denying it, especially since it wasn't ghostwritten. We just don't have to like it. I kind of wish it was ghostwritten, because then the majority could hold onto that and justifyably call discontinuity. However it just hurts all the more that it isn't ghostwritten. The same person that wrote the first 24 books also wrote the last two, and we find it hard to understand what happened. If anything else, I think the series was too long for its own good.

On the other hand Everworld was only 12 books long, give or take, and she still had ghostwriters do some of them.


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Offline AbstractIndigo

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Re: Thoughts on the ending
« Reply #352 on: May 28, 2010, 11:27:12 AM »
Thanks for the comments :)

Quote
Personally I wouldn't kill Tom off, but I would have him be upset that Jake didn't save him for three years. We never got anything on Tom's views late in the series, especially after he finds out Jake knew the whole time.

I think the series probably would have been more powerful with Tom dying because of the opportunities this would present, but that is of course my personal opinion. It would have been interesting to get some insight into his thoughts though, I agree.

Quote
There's a limit to our ability to "reject the canonicity" of the ending, though, because that is what was written. It's what was put down by the author. It's the only ending that the majority of the fanbase will ever know. It is, effectively, what really happened, and like it or not, you've still got to accept it to that degree.

Quote
There's really no denying it, especially since it wasn't ghostwritten

I disagree here; people can reject things that are set in stone, so to speak. Authors can as well actually; there are many well known examples of something being set in writing only to be retconned in later works, or even later versions of that work. For example, Tolkien changed the story behind the ring in the original version of The Hobbit. Authors can make mistakes, or change things. And similarly, sometimes readers may refuse to accept those changes when retcons do occur.

As I said, if you write a universe, I am not forced to accept it in any way just because it's what you wrote. When you write a book, you can think of it as an invitation to believe the story being presented, which I do in exchange for entertainment. I can stop this at any time I want if I feel it has become too illogical. It is perfectly possible to accept part of a story whilst rejecting other parts, unless there is an inconsistency in what you accept verses what you reject.

For example, if at the end of the series I said "hang on, that guy turns into a snake, that's just stupid", then this would be nonsensical, since to get to that point I would have had to accept this kind of stuff happening a lot! You can't rationally reject the concept of morphing at that stage because you already have accepted it for a long time. That would be inconsistent with the suspension of disbelief.

However, if KA declared in the final passage of the book that "Jake was actually a magical piece of talking furniture", no one is forced to accept this because it's written down on paper. Readers could rightly argue that "hang on, that is just silly", and refuse to accept that Jake is actually a piece of furniture, whilst accepting everything else up until that point. So whilst KA might assert that in her vision, Jake is an inanimate object, no one is required to take this seriously because it doesn't follow from what is already accepted in the story. The fact that KA said it, and it's actually in the book is irrelevant; people are still not forced to accept it.


Like many things in life though, people can reject something for good or bad reasons. A good reason in this case would be the dramatic discontinuities and large plot holes. A bad reason would be "Rachel died and I don't like this so I'm going to magically believe she's still alive". Compare that to "I refuse to accept Rachel's death because the state of events allows her to achieve her goal with a far lesser risk of death, and Jake acts in a completely different manner by making nonsensical strategic decisions, at complete odds with his competence in earlier books".

The first one is just childish wishful thinking. The second one is a rejection because things don't add up.



I'll also point out that if there is a contradiction in something, then this is a mistake on the part of the author. This isn't to say author's can't change their minds on things either, but if you do want to change your mind you either need to retcon earlier work, or you gradually evolve the story to meet the new vision. But you can't just dramatically change something, or have someone act completely differently and force anyone to accept it.

Offline Chad32

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Re: Thoughts on the ending
« Reply #353 on: May 28, 2010, 11:37:14 AM »
Yeah, that is a good point about accepting or rejecting things the author writes down.

I mainly say I want Tom to live because just about everyone got what they wanted to achieve in the end. Even Rachel, who accomplished her original goal even if she died.

Rachel got to save the Human race, Cassie got to save the planet, Marco saved his mom and reunited his family, Ax became a hero and Prince before being assimilated by The One. Tobias got to be important and make a difference in his life. even though he ended up cutting himself off from humanity because in KA's eyes he is destined to be unhappy.

Everyone but Jake got what they originally wanted, even though Ax ran into trouble and Tobias didn't stay with Ax or Loren for no easily understood reason. That's what hurts the most about Tom's death.


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Offline MoppingBear

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Re: Thoughts on the ending
« Reply #354 on: May 28, 2010, 12:58:25 PM »
You don't have to reject the ending, characters have died only to be brought back more than once.  There is no reason the elimmist couldn't have just brought her back to life, or take her on as an apprentice ala the drode to crayak.  Heck, the crayak could have brought her back too, I think there was a fanfic about that.  So yeah, take it as written, but assme the elimmist did something afterwards, there had to be a reason he told her his entire life story.  With him doing that, theres even an out for the full ending, Rachel saves them all.