Author Topic: Group Re-Read: #30 The Reunion  (Read 7313 times)

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Offline Terenia

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Group Re-Read: #30 The Reunion
« on: May 26, 2009, 05:31:17 PM »
Summary
Marco's mom is back. But she's not Visser One anymore. Marco's not even sure if she's still a Controller. But he's determined to find out. No matter what it takes. No matter what might happen, Marco wants his mom back. Jake, the other Animorphs, and Ax realize that Marco is under some serious stress. And that the situation with his mom could very well jeopardize everything they've worked for. Now they also have to wonder if Marco will be the one to give away the secret of the Animorphs...

Questions
1) What do you think about Visser One's decision to redeem herself by discrediting Visser Three? Plausible or a stupid move?
2) Marco is known for seeing "the line" from A to B, and consequences be damned. Does this make him ruthless? Is his plan to take out both Visser's ruthless?
3) Do you think that it was a good thing that Jake took the final decision away from Marco? What do you think would have happened if he hadn't?
4) Why do you think that Visser One is so much quicker to discover the Animorphs "secret" than Visser Three?
5) Anything else? Favorite scenes/quotes? Things you didn't like so much?

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Offline Viss3r

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Re: Group Re-Read: #30 The Reunion
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2009, 01:49:56 AM »
I think it was good how she was trying to discredit Visser 3 it fits with how she worked in Visser really...

And the reason she worked it out so quickly is because the ani's were talking to her so much and Marco was a flipping idiot with the prince of Egypt line.

I love the line where Tobias cuts in and tells Rachel "that’s enough" and Marco was like Tobias never messes with Rachel

Offline filmstu2005

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Re: Group Re-Read: #30 The Reunion
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2009, 03:42:57 AM »
Yea, that was pretty awesome, when he cut her off.

When Visser One figured out they were human by stating something about statistics (i think it was that there were hardly any human casualities as opposed to the high casualties of hork-bajir and taxxon) and Jake was like "let it go! let it go!" I was yellin at the book.

Seriously. There was a simple solution. They could've easily said "well the humans haven't been entirely enslaved yet like the Hork-Bajir and Taxxon. There's still a chance to save them so we won't harm them." I dont knw, something like that.

And then Marco at the end? What the hell was that? Lol. He made it too obvious they were human with all the human pop culture references. Of course she'd figure out who he was. Duh?

Still, i loved the ending of that book. Very deep. And then Rachel (who knew she could have a soft spot somewhere for Marco in all that darkness?) showing up to help him deal.

I like how Jake and Rachel gave Marco tough love to help him cope. They didnt try to baby his fears like Cassie did.

Offline AniDragon

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Re: Group Re-Read: #30 The Reunion
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2009, 08:58:36 AM »
I've always liked how it's Rachel who goes to Marco after issues with his mum. She's very no-nonsense, and tells it like it is. Like she said, it would be easier for him if she was dead and it was over, but someone needed to let him know that she might still be alive. Rachel was able to deliver the news without pitying him, which I think Marco appreciates.
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Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-Read: #30 The Reunion
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2009, 09:32:54 AM »
I think a big reason Rachel is there for Marco in regards to his Mom, is because they are the ones with broken families. Marco's mom is captured and thought dead. rachel's parents had a divorce, and may never get back together again. Jake's biggest issue is that his brother isn't able to control his body, but his parents aren't suffering for it. Cassie has no family issues.

Well, there is Tobias, but...I don't know.


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Offline Shark Akhrrana

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Re: Group Re-Read: #30 The Reunion
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2009, 02:29:39 PM »
1) What do you think about Visser One's decision to redeem herself by discrediting Visser Three? Plausible or a stupid move?

I think its a slightly silly idea. unless she can prove that Visser 3 is making it up.

2) Marco is known for seeing "the line" from A to B, and consequences be damned. Does this make him ruthless? Is his plan to take out both Visser's ruthless?

It may seem ruthless but in a way I can see his point of view. however the fact that Visser 1 had his mom did affect him and in a way ruined his plan

3) Do you think that it was a good thing that Jake took the final decision away from Marco? What do you think would have happened if he hadn't?

I think it was nice of him. It was kind of like what Cassie did when Jake thought he had to kill his brother. It would have destroyed Marco. I mean before he was going to quit because he felt he had no reason to fight for. When he found his mother was alive he was now all into it. if you take that out he might just break down and quit altogether.

4) Why do you think that Visser One is so much quicker to discover the Animorphs "secret" than Visser Three?

Visser 1 is smarter than Visser 3.

Alloran as we know from AC was a bit Mad and we know he was not just angry. It was alot more than that and he knew it.

As we know Yeerks absorb a bit of teh essence of their host. We know this from book 6 how

So I was thinking that perhaps Visser 3 was a great leader. I mean he was a very smart guy if you see what he does in HBC. but by The time he is going after teh Animorphs his villain skills started to deteriorate horribly.
And he didn't make the connections in Months that Visser 1 made in liek 30 minutes.

so is it because he is using Alloran who was not necessarily thinking straight when he started to use him as a host. if he woudl have taken someone else like Elfangor for example  <_< he would have been alot deadlier and smarter. than again if it had been Elfangor there would have been no Animorphs to begin with but that is another thing all together XD

5) Anything else? Favorite scenes/quotes? Things you didn't like so much?

The whole " we have to learn to talk like Arrogant Andalites
and poor Aximili being all D: i think I'm starting to feel offended

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Offline dolphin4077

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Re: Group Re-Read: #30 The Reunion
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2009, 02:43:44 PM »
1.  Well discrediting Visser 3 has worked out for her in the past.  Also Earth is closest place that would give her a home court advantage.  

2.  At times, such as during this book, it makes him ruthless, but it also makes him brilliant.

3.  It was a good thing Jake took the decision away.  Although Marco would have held up better than most of the others, being the one to actually do the deed would have changed him for the worst.  He would have started acting the way Jake did during the final mission.  He'd have no restraint and no care for future collateral damage, just want to win.    

4. Visser 1 knows humans, and the Animorphs spent to much time talking to her.  

 

Offline RYTX

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Re: Group Re-Read: #30 The Reunion
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2009, 02:45:39 PM »
1) That's exactly what earth politics is all about; I don't see why yeerks shouldn't do it too :P
2) I've used Marco's definition of ruthless in agruements, but I'm not sure how much I agree with it. At the moment, I wouldn't call him ruthless. His plan however was. Little ambitious too.
3) Gone out of the fight? I know this isn't that kinda story, but suicide won't baffle me if he'd done it. His whole reason for living was his parents; he already thought she'd died once; to go through it again, knowing it was his fault, his hand that killed the person who meant the world to him. Maybe not out and out kill himself, but will to live would be gone. Jake had to do it, he knew that would destroy Marco in everysense of the word
4) Pride. We've argued V3's iq and such, and his bizarre ideas, but on this aspect I think it's his pride. He more than any other is the enemy of the Andalites and the Andalites are his. You grow to respect your enemies, and as such he figures Andalites and only Andalites would be enough to ruff his feathers. Humans were inferior in his eyes, so they, and certainly not there young could touch him.
V1 had a similar respect for humans, along with the slip ups and number running, she'd be willing to take that possibility, V3 was not.

Quote
Seriously. There was a simple solution. They could've easily said "well the humans haven't been entirely enslaved yet like the Hork-Bajir and Taxxon. There's still a chance to save them so we won't harm them." I dont knw, something like that.

Yeah, that one shouldn't have gotten away "we're fighting to save them, not exterminate them; they're not dumb enough to attack us seeing as they are weak and wobbly on 2 legs" In excuse able to let that one go down as it did.
Oh well
« Last Edit: May 27, 2009, 02:50:04 PM by RYTX »
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Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-Read: #30 The Reunion
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2009, 03:14:23 PM »
I came up with that answer pretty quickly, as well. Humans can still be saved. Hork-Bajir can't. No one cares about Taxxons. Easy and believable answer.


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Offline morfowt

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Re: Group Re-Read: #30 The Reunion
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2009, 11:37:19 PM »
I came up with my own different reason for that: the animorphs fight in Earth animal morphs, so they'd have to fight hand-to-hand combat. humans, being weak in comparison to many animals, usually wouldn't fight hand-to-hand, but rather, shoot dracon beams and other weapons. hork-bajir however, are fit for hand-to-hand... even if they almost always lose. and taxxons... they're just attracted to the blood.

don't know how well that excuse would work though...

Offline Gafrash

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Re: Group Re-Read: #30 The Reunion
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2009, 11:26:20 AM »
1) What do you think about Visser One's decision to redeem herself by discrediting Visser Three? Plausible or a stupid move?
It lives up to the concept that the Vissers are political leaders as well as military heads. Discrediting the other is exactly was politicians and their parties seem to spend half their time trying to do.


2) Marco is known for seeing "the line" from A to B, and consequences be damned. Does this make him ruthless? Is his plan to take out both Visser's ruthless?

3) Do you think that it was a good thing that Jake took the final decision away from Marco? What do you think would have happened if he hadn't?
Taking out both Visser's was very ambitious in Marco's part. Not only that but, the way he did it felt impulsive, too.
Does it make him ruthless? I have to say 'no'.
Jake did well. In taking off the act of 'bumping off his mother', he took off the final component that would have made Marco ruthless. Jake virtually saved Marco's sanity.


4) Why do you think that Visser One is so much quicker to discover the Animorphs "secret" than Visser Three?
Yeah, I think Visser Three deserves more credit for this than we like to give Visser One.
The Abomination was obsessed with Andalites, and upon becoming the leader of the Earth invasion, all he had was a human morph and thousands of human subbordinates. In fact, these very same subbordinates had already shown suspicions early in the series. But Visser 3 in his Andalite host, could not conceive the idea of an Andalite warrior somehow breaking the Law of Seerow's Kindness. He was virtually oblivious to the possibility, inspite of all the signs and facts that were probably given to him.
In comes Visser One, with a human host, and she reads the signs with the human perspective, hears the reports and sees the facts for what they are. Add a little rivalry in the mix, and it's not hard to see how she got to deducing the truth.

...When Visser One figured out they were human by stating something about statistics (i think it was that there were hardly any human casualities as opposed to the high casualties of hork-bajir and taxxon) and Jake was like "let it go! let it go!" I was yellin at the book...
:o :oOh my GEE, man, SO WAS I!!! :o :o I froze, too, and didn't know what they could have said. But I was, like, give her SOMETHING... silence would only feed her theory!!!

Seriously. There was a simple solution. They could've easily said "well the humans haven't been entirely enslaved yet like the Hork-Bajir and Taxxon. There's still a chance to save them so we won't harm them." I dont knw, something like that....
See, that's a good call. But try thinking of that on the spot without Ax there to fill in.  ;)
But when I think about it now, Visser One was really only trying to screw around and call the 'Andalite bandits' on their little 'play'. She knew there was at least one Andalite in the team, so there's no reason why the hypothetical Andalite Bandits may want the Yeerks to think that there are humans among them. The tactic would indicate intention to confuse the enemy, which would be beneficial to the Andalite's cause.
She could not have possibly guessed the Andalite animal morphing tech could have been transferred to (a.) a human; (b.) a human juvenile; (c.) a human juvenile that happens to be her very own host's son!!!



5) Anything else? Favorite scenes/quotes? Things you didn't like so much?
I always wondered if Marco would have really survived a ram by a mountain goat.
And, at this stage of the series, when the car with the roaches got draconned, you just knew Jake and Cassie had survived!!

I am trying to figure out HOW the Visser came about being issued the gashad.
Supposedly, she was hiding on Earth and in disguise in order to get back at Visser Three. But when we next hear from her, after this book, she's standing trial with Visser Three, for treason and what have you...
« Last Edit: May 29, 2009, 11:29:07 AM by Gafrash »

Offline JFalcon

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Re: Group Re-Read: #30 The Reunion
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2009, 10:18:06 AM »
1) What do you think about Visser One's decision to redeem herself by discrediting Visser Three? Plausible or a stupid move?
It kind of makes me wonder why nobody cares about Visser Two actually, why does she have such a rivalry with Visser Three yet Visser Two is apparently utterly devoted to him once he becomes Visser One? What was up with that? Why is she not threatend by Visser Two if he's such a promoter of Visser Three? Why are these the only two Vissers that quarrel? I mean with these two as the example you'd think the Yeerk military was like Drow nobility. No wonder we--er they lost to the Andalites.

2) Marco is known for seeing "the line" from A to B, and consequences be damned. Does this make him ruthless? Is his plan to take out both Visser's ruthless?
(in his best Colonel Gentleman voice) "It doesnt make him ruthless it makes him smart!" honestly being the groups strategist is one of the main things I like about Marco, a strategist needs to be ruthless or he's not going to win the war, it's up to the soldiers to be valiant, the strategist just needs to make sure those soldiers are winning so they have the chance to be so. Maybe he's ruthless, I don't think he is, if he were however, maybe it's just because it's what they need to win. As far as I am concerned when your entire species' survival is concerned win first, redeem your soul later.

4) Why do you think that Visser One is so much quicker to discover the Animorphs "secret" than Visser Three?
Because Visser Three gets addicted to stupid pills at some point and becomes thicker and thicker as the series continues, making Visser One seem more intelligent just makes Visser Three seem even less so, but to a degree I think that Visser Three had a lot of evidence to make him believe they were Andalites, in Megamorphs 1 he admits he'd been considering his advisors' suggestions that the "Andalite Bandits" might be humans but since he captures Ax it clearly isn't so. Any time they capture anybody it's usually Ax, even Tobias and that Buffa-morph "demorph" to Andalite, the latter right in front of Visser Three if I recall, Visser Three had a lot of reasons to believe they were Andalites and a lot to lose if they turned out to be human (since then he needs to explain to the council that all his setbacks are because humans have formed a resistance with Andalite technology, the council would then send every Visser from Four downwards the good news about their sudden promotions) so without adresses and identities I wouldn't be surprised if Visser Three was willing to just believe himself correct.
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Offline Superglucose

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Re: Group Re-Read: #30 The Reunion
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2009, 02:26:27 PM »
1) What do you think about Visser One's decision to redeem herself by discrediting Visser Three? Plausible or a stupid move?
It's a stupid move.  Her big problem is that she's suspected of being a traitor to the empire, and here she is proving that there are free Hork-Bajir?  Sure Visser Three would have problems for letting free Hork-Bajir exist, but Visser One is going to have some questions to answer... namely "how did you know" and most importantly "weren't you the one to free them?"  Of course, I don't know Yeerk politics nearly as well as she does, so I could be completely wrong.
Quote
2) Marco is known for seeing "the line" from A to B, and consequences be damned. Does this make him ruthless? Is his plan to take out both Visser's ruthless?
It gives him the capacity to be ruthless, and his plan to take out both vissers is indeed ruthless.  He has no ruth.
Quote
3) Do you think that it was a good thing that Jake took the final decision away from Marco? What do you think would have happened if he hadn't?
Yes, but I don't think Marco and Jake would have made different decisions.  I think it's good because Jake is the leader, and he does need to lead.
Quote
4) Why do you think that Visser One is so much quicker to discover the Animorphs "secret" than Visser Three?
There's the human morph, plus a few subtle context clues that I suppose might only be available to her, but mostly it's because she's much, much smarter.  Remember, Visser One is the one who figured out how to take over Earth, and Visser Three is the one who screwed it up.  Visser Three wanted open war, Visser One knew that open war could fail.  Visser One has shown, time and time again, that she is far more far-sighted and far more intelligent and wise than any other character in this series... except possibly adult Elfangor and of course the Ellemist and co.  I believe that, without a doubt, had Visser One been in charge of the invasion of Earth, the secret would have been discovered much faster.  It's also possible that it would have never been discovered, because I could see Visser One killing the 'andalite bandits' before even knowing that they were human.  Remember that it's only Visser Three who's obsessed with 'capturing' them, I'm sure Visser One would weigh five andalite bodies against the several hundred that they're taking out over the course of the book, and decide that the five bodies comes in the lesser.

Offline morfowt

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Re: Group Re-Read: #30 The Reunion
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2009, 06:30:18 PM »
Visser Three wanted open war, Visser One knew that open war could fail.
is it ever confirmed that visser one thought open war would fail? sure she said it would, but it might've just been to cover up her real reason, that she has kids on earth...

Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-Read: #30 The Reunion
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2009, 08:48:32 PM »
I doubt open war would fail. The only way for us to win is if we took one of there big ships. The pool ship or blade ship. The only way that would happen is if they landed one for whatever reason, which actually seemed to work out in MM4 and #53. Or we stole an armada of bugfighters somehow. It's very unlikely that Humans would win.


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Offline JFalcon

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Re: Group Re-Read: #30 The Reunion
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2009, 10:14:07 AM »
Agreed but whilst the Yeerks could probably blast humanity back into the stone age the cost in lives before we surrendered if we surrendered would probably have been insane, thus the Yeerks would have benifited very little from open war anyway. Visser Three was boasting that he could get "enough" hosts with open war though so maybe the loss in possible hosts wasn't a concern for them, the real reason was most likely Visser One's kids and a slight human bias on her part.
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Offline AniDragon

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Re: Group Re-Read: #30 The Reunion
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2009, 10:16:52 AM »
I think V1's "excuse" to the council was that they'd loose too many hosts in an open war. After all, the entire reason they wanted humans in the first place was the sheer number of us.

But yeah, her real reason was probably the kids. XD
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Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-Read: #30 The Reunion
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2009, 10:42:24 AM »
I think it's blatantly stated that it's the kids. She'd be ok with millions of Human loss, but she'd hate it if her kids died. But still she's messed up. "If they don't love me after I tell them the truth, I'll have them infested so they'll have to love me." Riiight.


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Offline rocklobster

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Re: Group Re-Read: #30 The Reunion
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2009, 07:20:45 AM »
I think it's blatantly stated that it's the kids. She'd be ok with millions of Human loss, but she'd hate it if her kids died. But still she's messed up. "If they don't love me after I tell them the truth, I'll have them infested so they'll have to love me." Riiight.
Hey maybe that's where Marco gets his ruthlessness from.  Who knows, maybe the Yeerk was there when Marco was born and he got to see both sides of her.

Offline JFalcon

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Re: Group Re-Read: #30 The Reunion
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2009, 07:27:10 AM »
Very much a possibility, we don't know how long Eva was a controller before leaving, it's only Marco's guess that it was a year because for a year she and his father had no problems, but Visser One could have been in there much sooner than that.
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Offline Terenia

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Re: Group Re-Read: #30 The Reunion
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2009, 08:20:38 AM »
Eva was a Controller for two years before leaving Earth, so Marco was about 11 when she was infested. We find out in....#15, I think. Marco's dad talks about how suddenly their marriage became 'perfect', and Marco figures out that it's because a Yeerk has no interest with petty household squabbles.

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Offline JFalcon

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Re: Group Re-Read: #30 The Reunion
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2009, 08:30:32 AM »
Yes, but like I said we can only assume that that's when it happened, we don't know for sure that she wasn't a controller before that, but had kept up the arguments and such of normal couples to keep her cover, Visser One after all, wouldn't be beyond that, Marco is making an assumption (a reasonable one mind you, but still an assumption)
Still even just two years is plenty of time to leave her mark on the poor kid.
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Offline morfowt

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Re: Group Re-Read: #30 The Reunion
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2009, 08:37:55 AM »
Eva was a Controller for two years before leaving Earth, so Marco was about 11 when she was infested. We find out in....#15, I think. Marco's dad talks about how suddenly their marriage became 'perfect', and Marco figures out that it's because a Yeerk has no interest with petty household squabbles.
um... if it was two years before she left earth, wouldn't marco be 9 when she was infested? two years before she left plus two years later they became animorphs when they were 13...

Offline FATELUVR95

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Re: Group Re-Read: #30 The Reunion
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2011, 06:25:07 AM »
  • 4) Why do you think that Visser One is so much quicker to discover the Animorphs "secret" than Visser Three?
I don't know if antone has said this yet, but I say Andalite Arrogance.