Author Topic: Seriously though, what did you think of the Chee?  (Read 5125 times)

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Offline Snakie

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Re: Seriously though, what did you think of the Chee?
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2014, 12:09:31 AM »
Great thoughts in this thread so far, I'm glad I started it.

I get the impression that the Chee not only had free will but, had Jake not fed the means to his dog at the end of book 10, they had the ability to change their programming at will.

Defeat the Yeerks with as minimal a loss to sentient life as possible, then change the programming back and throw away the key.

Eric changed his programming to take down the Yeerk battalion and seemed to have no trouble whatsoever changing it back.  I think they could have impacted the outcome of the war without this having longterm implications in warfare.

Offline itw2009

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Re: Seriously though, what did you think of the Chee?
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2014, 07:14:02 AM »
I'm just a little optimistic of their chances of being, as I said before, metal ninjas that can infiltrate any Yeerk complex, smash a kandrona generator without harming anyone, and leave without a trace.
and, in leaving no trace, leaving a fingerprint of a very different sort. ;)

The Yeerks wouldn't just leave. Given Andalite technology, we'd be too big a threat to leave alone.
agreed. we'd be toast. this is basic sun tzu theory, too- never leave an enemy at your back.


Eric changed his programming to take down the Yeerk battalion and seemed to have no trouble whatsoever changing it back.  I think they could have impacted the outcome of the war without this having longterm implications in warfare.
yes- more realistically (and like chad's been getting at), we'd be talking about a handful of chee acting as a guerilla force, stealthily taking out the yeerk empire. they'd be the competent animorphs. ideally, they'd reduce time spent at war, minimize war casualties, get home in time to walk the dogs.


....ehhhh.

what would the chee wish to accomplish by going after the yeerks? if they shift that line of morality between what they would then be programmed to consider as 'acceptable' and 'unacceptable' action, then where would it land? and with what goal in mind - with what motive - would they finally join the war? it wouldn't be only to end the war on earth. it could never end that way. ending the war on earth would only ever have been a stopgap.

see, if the chee engage to end the war on earth, there are two outcomes: a) the local yeerks are destroyed or b) the yeerks' earth program is immobilized. in 'a', the yeerks would take so sudden an interest in earth that- reappropriating chad's line of thought- they'd be back to fry us or with reinforcements for mass infestation. i mean, what else does an ambitious species do when a quarter of its population suddenly drops off the map? ...investigate. with nukes.

in 'b', we'd suddenly have millions (billions?) of host-less yeerks as hostage.

...did i mention yeerk interest? and nukes? you could would set things up so that it'd take some years before the empire was fully aware of the situation, but we'd then be engaged in active, prolonged warfare with the entire yeerk empire... if we were smart enough to adopt yeerk technology in that time and could survive the initial onslaught (back to the ironic weapons advancements... not mentioning the logistics of revealing yeerk presence to world powers and getting them to cooperate and work toward that end and argh-not-happening).

assuming that works, we still wouldn't be able to defeat the entire yeerk empire (and really, no guarantees that we'd get help from andalites or another species). do we go back to the chee and ask for help- again? how do they engage? against the empire? anonymously?

i don't think that you could immobilize the entire yeerk empire anonymously. you'd have to destroy them and i just.... auuuuugh. did i mention the xenocide thing? such a bad idea. that's an immeasurable loss. and the universe is not going to believe that humans managed to destroy the entire yeerk empire. hello, new frenemies.


that's another interesting thing- how differently can these androids process thoughts such that one android thinks to himself, "i'm going to change my programming!" and all of the other, identically-programmed androids say, "you are bats*t crazy"? total tangent. but that's evidence of some very sophisticated (and/or flawed) technology.
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Offline pallosalama

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Re: Seriously though, what did you think of the Chee?
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2014, 04:26:25 PM »
I get the impression that the Chee not only had free will but, had Jake not fed the means to his dog at the end of book 10, they had the ability to change their programming at will.

Ai ai ai. Don't you remember what exactly happened in that book? He used pemalite crystal to rewrite his programming. That and only(This is my guess, but seeing how advanced Pemalite tehcnology was I don't think anything else would have power to do so) that extremely capable microprosessor could aid them in changing programming.
So they exactly couldn't change it at will  :P
Yet seeing your post made me think, "omg, I've never thought of that, you are an evil genius".

Offline Snakie

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Re: Seriously though, what did you think of the Chee?
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2014, 09:39:28 AM »
I get the impression that the Chee not only had free will but, had Jake not fed the means to his dog at the end of book 10, they had the ability to change their programming at will.

Ai ai ai. Don't you remember what exactly happened in that book? He used pemalite crystal to rewrite his programming. That and only(This is my guess, but seeing how advanced Pemalite tehcnology was I don't think anything else would have power to do so) that extremely capable microprosessor could aid them in changing programming.
So they exactly couldn't change it at will  :P

They apparently could as long as they had the pemalite crystal, which they CHOSE to relinquish.

Once they had the crystal he changed his programming and changed it back twice in one book, then chose never to use it again and Jake disposed of it.

So yes, I think that qualifies as having the "free will" to change their programming, free will they simply chose to close the door on.

Ai ai ai yourself.

Offline pallosalama

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Re: Seriously though, what did you think of the Chee?
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2014, 01:48:24 PM »
But then again, without crystal they couldn't do it. So more like of free will in very narrow space  ;)

e: Well, true, when thinking it they did have free will on changing the programming IF they had the crystal. My bad
« Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 04:09:55 PM by pallosalama »
Yet seeing your post made me think, "omg, I've never thought of that, you are an evil genius".

Offline MoppingBear

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Re: Seriously though, what did you think of the Chee?
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2014, 10:29:04 AM »
I get the impression that the Chee not only had free will but, had Jake not fed the means to his dog at the end of book 10, they had the ability to change their programming at will.

Ai ai ai. Don't you remember what exactly happened in that book? He used pemalite crystal to rewrite his programming. That and only(This is my guess, but seeing how advanced Pemalite tehcnology was I don't think anything else would have power to do so) that extremely capable microprosessor could aid them in changing programming.
So they exactly couldn't change it at will  :P

They apparently could as long as they had the pemalite crystal, which they CHOSE to relinquish.

Once they had the crystal he changed his programming and changed it back twice in one book, then chose never to use it again and Jake disposed of it.

So yes, I think that qualifies as having the "free will" to change their programming, free will they simply chose to close the door on.

Ai ai ai yourself.

You keep saying they.  Erik was the one with the Crystal, and the only one with the choice.  Did he even tell the other Chee that he had it at any point?  Note that while they have the programing limitation of not being able to harm, they have free will, and various amounts of desire to "push" their programming.  Erik was actually far more peaceful than most Chee, unwilling to harm even in ways his programming would allow.  IIRC there was a female Chee that wanted nothing more than to be release from her programming so she could go on a rampage against the Yeerks.

Offline Chad32

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Re: Seriously though, what did you think of the Chee?
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2014, 11:37:00 AM »
I forget whether Eric was the only one who wanted to be reprogrammed at the time or not, but I don't think it said he took the crystal back to the other Chee and mentioned what he did. So I think he made the decision for all the Chee.


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Offline Snakie

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Re: Seriously though, what did you think of the Chee?
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2014, 04:04:52 PM »
I get the impression that the Chee not only had free will but, had Jake not fed the means to his dog at the end of book 10, they had the ability to change their programming at will.

Ai ai ai. Don't you remember what exactly happened in that book? He used pemalite crystal to rewrite his programming. That and only(This is my guess, but seeing how advanced Pemalite tehcnology was I don't think anything else would have power to do so) that extremely capable microprosessor could aid them in changing programming.
So they exactly couldn't change it at will  :P

They apparently could as long as they had the pemalite crystal, which they CHOSE to relinquish.

Once they had the crystal he changed his programming and changed it back twice in one book, then chose never to use it again and Jake disposed of it.

So yes, I think that qualifies as having the "free will" to change their programming, free will they simply chose to close the door on.

Ai ai ai yourself.

You keep saying they.  Erik was the one with the Crystal, and the only one with the choice.  Did he even tell the other Chee that he had it at any point?  Note that while they have the programing limitation of not being able to harm, they have free will, and various amounts of desire to "push" their programming.  Erik was actually far more peaceful than most Chee, unwilling to harm even in ways his programming would allow.  IIRC there was a female Chee that wanted nothing more than to be release from her programming so she could go on a rampage against the Yeerks.

This is a fair point.  I guess I've always assumed that after experiencing the horrors of battle that Erek made the same choice all of the other Chee would have made: to remain peaceful.

In any case, it seems fairly clear to me that they CHOSE to remain peaceful, and that's how the books always framed it, too.

Offline pallosalama

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Re: Seriously though, what did you think of the Chee?
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2014, 07:07:04 AM »
That could then mean few things.
1) Pemalites didn't program Chees properly so they could never be violant
2) Pemalites trusted Chees to have right to decide whether they would fight or not
3) Pemalites realized that sometimes Chees might actually need to change their programming
Yet seeing your post made me think, "omg, I've never thought of that, you are an evil genius".

Offline Tim Bruening

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Re: Seriously though, what did you think of the Chee?
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2015, 07:29:09 AM »
I get the impression that the Chee not only had free will but, had Jake not fed the means to his dog at the end of book 10, they had the ability to change their programming at will.

Ai ai ai. Don't you remember what exactly happened in that book? He used pemalite crystal to rewrite his programming. That and only(This is my guess, but seeing how advanced Pemalite tehcnology was I don't think anything else would have power to do so) that extremely capable microprosessor could aid them in changing programming.
So they exactly couldn't change it at will  :P

They apparently could as long as they had the pemalite crystal, which they CHOSE to relinquish.

Once they had the crystal he changed his programming and changed it back twice in one book, then chose never to use it again and Jake disposed of it.

So yes, I think that qualifies as having the "free will" to change their programming, free will they simply chose to close the door on.

Ai ai ai yourself.

What effect did the Permalite crystal have on the dog's digestive system?

Offline Tim Bruening

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Re: Seriously though, what did you think of the Chee?
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2015, 12:17:16 PM »
Would it have been kosher for the Chee to cripple the Yeerk ships with computer viruses so that they could be captured without violence?

Offline Phoenix004

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Re: Seriously though, what did you think of the Chee?
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2015, 06:52:10 AM »
Please refrain from double posting Tim, you can always edit your previous post instead.
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Offline Tim Bruening

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Re: Seriously though, what did you think of the Chee?
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2015, 01:42:43 PM »
Please refrain from double posting Tim, you can always edit your previous post instead.

Opps, sorry.  I forgot about my previous post, which was three weeks before my latest post.