Author Topic: Group Re-Read: The Hork-Bajir Chronicles  (Read 7183 times)

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Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-Read: The Hork-Bajir Chronicles
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2009, 01:16:31 PM »
The Arn weren't his parents. His parents were his parents. So it's not like his parents telling him that. It's like some other creature that has no impact or difference in his life saying it. Someone that he never even knew existed last week or so. That's more like how it is.

I do think the Arn should have done more to help the Hork-Bajir, especially since they had the technology. They could have made the Horks noninfestable, or created hosts for Yeerks, and changed them so that they required that one type of host body to live. Instead, they made a quantum virus to destroy the Horks. I'm not sure how that would have helped the Arn at all, though.


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Offline JFalcon

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Re: Group Re-Read: The Hork-Bajir Chronicles
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2009, 02:27:30 PM »
The comparison to parents was mostly for Morfowt who said

what's so painful about it? doesn't sound any less painful than hearing my mom say she gave birth to me...

If indeed we use the idea that the Arn are comparable to parents they'd be some of the most hateful, neglectful parents a child could ask for.

So it's not like his parents telling him that. It's like some other creature that has no impact or difference in his life saying it. Someone that he never even knew existed last week or so. That's more like how it is.

It's true he didn't know they existed but, does that make them less real? Once you accept them as your creator you have to deal with what that means. Rather than wondering what the meaning of life is you suddenly know it's to trim trees, give birth to more tree trimmers and absolutely nothing else.

Their impact on his lie was turning out to be, for all intents and purposes, the reason he existed. I really don't see why this wouldn't seem relevant. They invented a species that wasn't meant to grow any more inteligent or capable, wasn't meant to do anything but prune trees, a species that can't evolve to be smarter than that because inteligence is a freak accident.

Even if you assume that evolution doesnt exist and everyone was just made exactly as we are now by some kind of deity that implies that all our so-called advances are due to the knowledge we've gained thus far, so if the Hork-Bajir came about because the Arn made them how can they ever be more than they were as a people? Humans can grow smarter over generations as new technologies and learning methods are discovered, the Hork-Bajir couldn't. Dak wasn't the next stage of their evolution, he was a bug in the system. Dak's own child failed to be a seer, strongly suggesting that the seer genes weren't exactly super dominent, so it isn't like he could have bred stupidity out of his people, the "non-seer" gene in Aldrea's Hork-Bajir morph overpowered them and they were kept dormant until Tobi came around and I strongly suspect the Ellimist had a hand there. Hork-Bajir were doomed to a life of what Dak considered simplicity and what Aldrea considered stupidity.

The Arn were the core source of everything that made a difference or affected his life aside from his Andalite girlfriend who manipulated and used him (such a healthy relationship) they even built the monsters that had terrorized his people for generations, monsters that would have, and could have killed him and their only reason for doing so essentially added up to "we didn't want you bugging us" so I don't think he should have been able to essentially shrug off the Arn.

Dak wanted more for his people, he tried to teach them things and then found out they were the way they were not because they were a new species still learning, but because that was how they were built, his efforts were in vain, they'd never be like the Andalites, they'd never be smart enough for that, and some nameless god wasn't to blame, nor were the natural forces of evolution. No it was the Arn, those loveable little tinkerers.


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Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-Read: The Hork-Bajir Chronicles
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2009, 05:43:51 PM »
Ok, when you say it like that it does sound harsh. seers were supposed to be there to teach new things. Something special. Now it just seems like seers are a bug in the system, and the efforts they make don't amount to much at all. Sure seers do help a little, like how a seer taught them how to communicate with other valleys through musical instruments. But it's just too few and far between for the society to really advance.


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Offline morfowt

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Re: Group Re-Read: The Hork-Bajir Chronicles
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2009, 04:32:05 AM »
... you have a point, but I'm still having troubling imagining any pain...

Offline Terenia

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Re: Group Re-Read: The Hork-Bajir Chronicles
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2009, 07:35:28 AM »
... you have a point, but I'm still having troubling imagining any pain...

I think that the more religious of a society you have, the more painful it would be. Imagine spending your whole life devoted to a certain deity, only to find out that you were created for the purpose of tree-trimming. Kind of takes the wonder out of the whole 'meaning of life' question. At least initially.

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Offline morfowt

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Re: Group Re-Read: The Hork-Bajir Chronicles
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2009, 08:27:38 AM »
ah... that could be why I don't understand. I'm not religious in any way at all...

plus...

... you have a point, but I'm still having troubling imagining any pain...
when I wrote that, I didn't realize there was already a second page. so this was a reply to the last post on the first page...

It's true he didn't know they existed but, does that make them less real? Once you accept them as your creator you have to deal with what that means. Rather than wondering what the meaning of life is you suddenly know it's to trim trees, give birth to more tree trimmers and absolutely nothing else.

Their impact on his lie was turning out to be, for all intents and purposes, the reason he existed. I really don't see why this wouldn't seem relevant. They invented a species that wasn't meant to grow any more inteligent or capable, wasn't meant to do anything but prune trees, a species that can't evolve to be smarter than that because inteligence is a freak accident.

Even if you assume that evolution doesnt exist and everyone was just made exactly as we are now by some kind of deity that implies that all our so-called advances are due to the knowledge we've gained thus far, so if the Hork-Bajir came about because the Arn made them how can they ever be more than they were as a people? Humans can grow smarter over generations as new technologies and learning methods are discovered, the Hork-Bajir couldn't. Dak wasn't the next stage of their evolution, he was a bug in the system. Dak's own child failed to be a seer, strongly suggesting that the seer genes weren't exactly super dominent, so it isn't like he could have bred stupidity out of his people, the "non-seer" gene in Aldrea's Hork-Bajir morph overpowered them and they were kept dormant until Tobi came around and I strongly suspect the Ellimist had a hand there. Hork-Bajir were doomed to a life of what Dak considered simplicity and what Aldrea considered stupidity.

The Arn were the core source of everything that made a difference or affected his life aside from his Andalite girlfriend who manipulated and used him (such a healthy relationship) they even built the monsters that had terrorized his people for generations, monsters that would have, and could have killed him and their only reason for doing so essentially added up to "we didn't want you bugging us" so I don't think he should have been able to essentially shrug off the Arn.

Dak wanted more for his people, he tried to teach them things and then found out they were the way they were not because they were a new species still learning, but because that was how they were built, his efforts were in vain, they'd never be like the Andalites, they'd never be smart enough for that, and some nameless god wasn't to blame, nor were the natural forces of evolution. No it was the Arn, those loveable little tinkerers.
this quote explained a few things I was still not getting...

hmm... yeah I guess that could be pretty painful for Dak...

Offline Liberal Tobias

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Re: Group Re-Read: The Hork-Bajir Chronicles
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2012, 10:20:16 PM »
Re-reading the series on my own right now, and if this isn't the saddest, most affecting Animorph book in the entire series, then I don't know what is.

Dak has to be the most tragic figure in all of Animorphs.