Richard's Animorphs Forum

Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: Duck, Duck, Goose on June 02, 2013, 11:36:41 PM

Title: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Duck, Duck, Goose on June 02, 2013, 11:36:41 PM

     A thread for those of us unsure of why our heroes did 'x' when it would have been easier to do 'y'.

     Now, the reason behind many Animorphs actions is strictly for the sake of driving the plot. But lets put aside the plot for a second and discuss an alternative to some of the Animorphs' decisions. I think this should keep people busy, as our heroes make many a head scratching move.

     For some of the newer members, or for those of us who just plain forgot some of the stuff in the books, put the book number in parentheses (these things).

     I'll start with: Why didn't the Animorphs just load up on morphs from the get go?

     Sure, you could say that they were young, naive, and inexperienced, but come on! Marco claims to be paranoid, yet I don't recall him bringing this up. And the Animorphs are always surprised whenever they're faced with a mission where they don't have the appropriate morph. Had they just acquired everything at the Gardens, they wouldn't be in so much trouble. Of course, this is lampshaded in the fan fic "Idyllic" where either Marco or Jake says that, even if they had prepared, they'd still be screwed some how.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Snakie on June 02, 2013, 11:53:01 PM
I remember at the very beginning of the series they wondered off hand whether there was a limit to how many morphs they could acquire, and Marco grimly remarked that they'd "probably find out at the worst possible time"  I don't recall which book it was, but I believe it was one of the 3 pre-Ax books, possibly even book 1.  Of course, one would think Ax would have dispelled such misconceptions.

But yeah, the reason the authors did it is because they wanted each character to have their own "signature" morphs, particularly bird of prey and battle morphs.

The reasoning WITHIN the storyline for the Animorphs not just acquiring everything in their reach is weak, and the above is the best I've got.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: theyoungphoenix on June 03, 2013, 02:21:04 AM
I think Snakie answered that question for you. What he said made sense.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Snakie on June 03, 2013, 10:19:54 AM
To keep this thread going, why didn't the Animorphs just hide David away until they could take care of the world leaders mission and ease him into things more slowly?

Trying to train a new Animorph and bring him along on their most crucial mission yet created tension they really weren't equipped to deal with at the moment, and shouldn't they have eased the new Animorph in with some smaller missions and morphing sessions first?  Was having a 7th person for THAT mission REALLY that critical?
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Duck, Duck, Goose on June 03, 2013, 10:33:10 AM

     That's a good point. It's one Poparena takes note of in his reviews. A lot of fans think that the Animorphs should have left Erek with the Chee. But one could argue that there was just too much going on at the time--the Summit meeting, David finding the box-- that the Animorphs sort of cracked under pressure and made some bad decisions. The Animorphs making bad decisions isn't at all detrimental to the story, though, as it shows how they have grown in how they handle certain decisions. The David Trilogy is considered to be a "turning point" of sorts for the series; it gets notably darker as the books go on from there. That could be why David was so poorly handled.

     Also, I think K.A. just wanted to give more reasons as to why David was such an unsympathetic ****.

     Another thing I've been pondering--though, it's probably a stretch:

     Why didn't Jake use one of the Chee to impersonate Tom while the Animorphs starved his Yeerk?

     Again, for the sake of the plot, I see why they didn't do this. But I'm sure that Jake spent many a day thinking of ways to free Tom, so maybe something like this crossed his mind? He could have asked any one of the Chee to project an illusion of Tom, go to the Yeerk Pool every three days to "feed" while Jake and the Animorphs keep Tom in the Hork-Bajir valley--or, perhaps less of a risk, the shed where they kept Jake-- and starved the Yeerk? They could have used that homeless Chee from the Exposed to pretend to be Tom for when ever Tom was supposed to feed. Tom could probably live at home, as though nothing happened, and supply the Animorphs with a wealth of information. The only problem here would be that he would have to keep up the charade when confronted by Chapman, and other controllers. And, of course, he'd still have to attend the Sharing. But they could always just keep the free Tom in the Hork-Bajir valley while a Chee lived his ordinary life. It would be a hell of a lot better than being a slave.

     Again, it's a stretch. I don't think the series would have been as great if they had gone this route. But it's neat to think about. I can see why K.A. wouldn't want to overuse the Chee-- the same reason she doesn't use the Ellimist all the time: too over powered.

     Hell, things for the Animorphs would have been so much simpler if they just had the Chee go to school for them, while they caught up on some z's in the Hork-Bajir valley. I mean, seriously! That's the perfect place to do Animorphs things! Why stick around in a barn, risking possible interruption from Cassie's parents, when they have a Hork-Bajir valley that only they can see! Come on, Animorphs. You've got these sources at your disposal. Use them!
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Snakie on June 03, 2013, 10:43:20 AM
Damn, I thought I'd had an original thought there, as I didn't remember that particular point from poparena's reviews.

The Chee were completely underutilized as the series went on, even though their useage increased as the story went on.  If they had enough power to create a hologram of an entire Hork Bajir valley, than there's a million different other acts of deception they could have taken part in that would have made any number of missions a lot easier.

I file that under the "its best not to think about it" categories, as the reasoning internal to the story isn't quite there.  I think KA (and the ghost writers?) ended up making the Chee a little more powerful than they were originally intended to be, and KA was definitely conscious of the idea of overusing them.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: donut on June 08, 2013, 11:29:42 PM
I agree the chee were under used.  But I kinda think it would have hurt the story to have used them to their potential.

Like why didn't the anis ever use the chee to get aboard the bridge of the blade ship?  The anis could hide inside the hologram and then use the hologram to show a much larger presence and bluff a surrender of the bridge crew.  Even if they couldn't bluff it, they could likely take the bridge with surprise and use the chee or Ax to hack the computer system.  If they could turn the ship on the pool ship it would effectively end the invasion.  Or if all they managed to do was scuttle the blade ship it'd be a serious blow to the yeerk
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: NateSean on June 09, 2013, 11:48:05 PM
To answer Goose's first question:

We see what happens a number of times when the Animorphs tried to morph an animal with no experience or real knowledge of how that animal's mind works, only for the consequences to be near fatal. So loading up on a bunch of morphs when you have no idea what you are doing isn't going to be the smartest move, no matter how you slice it.

Think about it. Do you know how to use a bow and arrow? Do you know how to use a sword? Do you know how to use a sub-machine gun? Or a rocket launcher? If you only knew how to use one or two of these things, would it make sense to load yourself up with others until you had some idea of how they worked?

Then there's ever present problem of the Chee. Sure, they were underused on the surface, but you do realize they were not required to help the Animorphs right? Everything they did was their own choice. There were even Chee who were frustrated by the actions of Erek's group, so you can infer from that interaction in The Android that only a fraction of the Chee were actually involved in anything. And at least once Erek implied that as talented as the Chee were, it really was a task covering for the Animorphs and managing their own lives as well.

In the end, Jake had to blackmail the Chee to get them to help with over taking the Pool Ship.

Similarly with the Hork-Bajir, the Ellemist did not intend for the Hork-Bajir valley to be the Animorphs' couch. Under Toby's guidance, the priority of the Hork-Bajir was to free their people. Yes, they felt they owed Tobias a debt but, even though all of the Animorphs had a hand in freeing Jara and Ket, Toby was dead set on making sure the Hork-Bajir were independant of the human race even after the Yeerks were gone. So Tobias remained their token savior and the other Animorphs were pretty much just there. Marco's Dad and later everyone's parents not withstanding, the Hork-Bajir were not obligated to help the Animorphs.

It's got to be especially embarrassing when you figure Toby is not even a year old by human standards when we learn that she's freed more living Hork-Bajir than the handful of human and Hork-Bajir hosts the Anis tried to free combined.

As for Tom, he always seemed to get the high ranking Yeerks. Or the Yeerks that quickly earned Visser Three (One's) favor. Was Tom's competitive nature from his basketball days a small influence on Temrash and the other Yeerk? Who knows? But, the point is, Tom would been a host that people missed. And some of the human Controllers were beginning to suspect that the Andalite Bandits were actually humans. It wouldn't take long for someone like Chapman to get the significance of Tom specifically going missing.

Now here are my questions.

Why not give Toby the morphing power?

Cassie stops Jake from killing Tom. All is well with the world, but Tom wasn't exactly running the four-minute mile. At the very least, she could have ran him down, knocked him out, and grabbed the cube back before anyone was the wiser.

Why didn't Rachel just kill Visser Three after he let Ax go?
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: donut on June 10, 2013, 04:14:16 AM
Quote
Sure, they were underused on the surface, but you do realize they were not required to help the Animorphs right? Everything they did was their own choice.

Yeah, but that's about the same as saying the animorphs weren't required to fight the yeerks or listen to Jake.  It came up from time to time, true, but it was in everyone's best interest to do so.  The chee knew that if the yeerks won all the dogs would be killed, so supporting the animorphs was their best chance of continuing what they wanted to do.  And at least some chee never seemed to have a problem helping the animorphs before the last fight.  They concealed the valley, they spied for the anis, they took their place for the Arctic trip.  And the anis saved a good number of the chee when they went to pemalite ship. 

I get why they couldn't replace high level yeerks though.  They would have had to do things that would violate their programing to keep their cover, like killing people.

To your questions,

Toby - I don't think their was much of a reason not to, just no reason to do it.  She wasn't going to fight with the anis, she had her own war to win.  She also couldn't lead the HB morphed.  She wouldn't have been Toby to them as soon as she changed.

I think Cassie wanted Tom to have the cube.  She seemed to think it was the right decision even when she didn't realize she made it.  And wasn't Tom still armed at that point?  I seem to remember wondering why Tom didn't just shoot them when Cassie stopped Jake.

I can't recall which time you're talking about with Rachel.


Here's one:  Why didn't the animorphs ever train or rehearse?  Until the end when they were staying with the HB I don't think they had ever even practiced what they were going to do.  As Marco put it we don't practice, we just go in and hope everything works out.  (at least he said something close to that.)

Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Adam on June 10, 2013, 08:15:53 AM

Quote


Toby - I don't think their was much of a reason not to, just no reason to do it.  She wasn't going to fight with the anis, she had her own war to win.  She also couldn't lead the HB morphed.  She wouldn't have been Toby to them as soon as she changed.

...

Here's one:  Why didn't the animorphs ever train or rehearse?  Until the end when they were staying with the HB I don't think they had ever even practiced what they were going to do.  As Marco put it we don't practice, we just go in and hope everything works out.  (at least he said something close to that.)

I don't think the Animorphs wanted to deprive the Hork-Bajir of there leader. Taking Toby into Animorphs battles would have risked her life, and the Horkies would have been left with no one to organise them. Would have been pretty awesome though :P

Did they really have time to practise? The first portion of the war required them to still lead relatively normal lives in order to not seem suspicious. Going off everyday to practise missions or morphs may have got in the way of normal activities.
Also, I seem to remember a lot of missions being decided on the spot. No time to practise in those situations.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Chad32 on June 10, 2013, 08:40:58 AM
Why did they wait until book 25 or whatever to start using the chee to cover for them at home when they did missions? Why didn't they rescue Tom in book 31, when that was the best chance they'd ever had after book 1? Why didn't they tell David to crash at Erek's house, since the main reason he was causing problems is because they wanted him to sleep in a barn full of animals? Why didn't they use dracons?
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: NateSean on June 10, 2013, 10:03:46 AM
I don't think the Animorphs wanted to deprive the Hork-Bajir of there leader.

They wouldn't have had to. Toby wouldn't have to join their missions, but giving her the morphing power might have come in handy, should she, say, lose an entire arm on one of the many raids to capture Hork-Bajir.

Of course Toby might have refused it on principal, but a Seer with the Andalite morphing ability could probably think of some uses.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: donut on June 10, 2013, 02:46:30 PM
Quote
Why didn't they tell David to crash at Erek's house, since the main reason he was causing problems is because they wanted him to sleep in a barn full of animals?

They didn't trust David, and the yeerks didn't know about the chee.   They could have lost their spy network if David blabbed.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Duck, Duck, Goose on June 10, 2013, 03:02:58 PM

     Well, even if David DID blab about the Chee, what are the Yeerks going to do--infest them?
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: donut on June 10, 2013, 08:16:16 PM
The biggest advantage the chee had was no one knew they existed.  They were spies, and in the spy world to be known is to cease to be useful.  At the very least, if the yeerks had found out about the chee, they'd take measures to find them and destroy them.  And if the yeerks could ever capture one intact...
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Duck, Duck, Goose on June 10, 2013, 08:51:50 PM

     Refresh my memory, because I'm not sure: was it ever stated that the Chee were indestructible? For some reason I figured they were... Hmm...Maybe I imagined it.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Chad32 on June 10, 2013, 10:19:44 PM
Quote
Why didn't they tell David to crash at Erek's house, since the main reason he was causing problems is because they wanted him to sleep in a barn full of animals?

They didn't trust David, and the yeerks didn't know about the chee.   They could have lost their spy network if David blabbed.

Blabbed about what? I'm not saying tell him about the chee. I'm saying "Here is a friend of ours that will let you crash in a guest bedroom with a TV. Just mind your manners, and you won't have to sleep on a haystack in the barn." I wasn't trying to say take him to the dog park.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: donut on June 11, 2013, 01:20:18 AM
The series wasn't consistent with how hard it was to kill a chee.  In 26 Erik stood in the doorway and the howlers started blasting the walls out with dracon beams because it was faster than trying to kill Erik, but in one of the later books a single shot almost disabled one posing as Marco and his dad.

It never said they were indestructible though, just resistant to dracons. 

Yeah, but he might have stumbled on it, and it's a big risk for only a slightly better chance at keeping him from doing something stupid.  And he'd still point out the house he stayed at.  I doubt the chee could have relocated the dog park on a couple hours notice.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Chad32 on June 11, 2013, 08:33:23 AM
There had to have been guests in the house before. I'm not saying it's guaranteed, but I would expect these people to have something in place that someone staying over won't accidentally stumble on the secret basement. Plus I don't know anyone who would be willing to stay in that barn with all the noise, the smells, and sleeping on hay. Jake got mad at him for sneaking into a hotel room, but I'm like what do you expect?

It honestly shouldn't have been a big risk.


I'll agree the durability of the Chee isn't very inconsistent, but the power of the dracons isn't either.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Duck, Duck, Goose on June 11, 2013, 11:52:30 AM

     While we're on David, why didn't he just get in to the hotel room as an insect instead of drawing attention to himself by throwing a rock at the window and morphing a golden eagle? 

      Unless I'm misremembering again.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Chad32 on June 11, 2013, 12:08:15 PM
I think he made kind of a scene, but he may not have thought of it. Remember he was new to morphing, and I'm not sure he ever tried an insect.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Snakie on June 11, 2013, 05:44:36 PM
Because he was 13 or 14 at the time?

Its worth noting that a number of these questions can probably be explained that way.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Chad32 on June 11, 2013, 05:50:45 PM
We don't really expect many kids to act their age, though, since most writers are adults.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: donut on June 11, 2013, 06:03:48 PM
Quote
Plus I don't know anyone who would be willing to stay in that barn with all the noise, the smells, and sleeping on hay.

I dunno, ever tried camping?  Or throwing a sleeping bag down and throwing a poncho around it to try to keep rain out?  I've had to do that  :P     I'm thinking a barn might be a bit nicer.

Yeah, David also struck me as someone who thought he was smarter than everyone else so he didn't have to follow their rules.  Kinda like, it doesn't really matter because they aren't smart enough to stop me even if they somehow caught me.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Chad32 on June 11, 2013, 06:11:08 PM
You went camping with a bunch of different animals in the same room? Or practically the same room? Hey I'm a country boy. I'm used to the sound of crickets and frogs. I'm sure this went beyond that. I honestly don't think he just went to the hotel just so he could lay on a mattress and watch TV. Even the slightest bit of familiarity would help him in his current emotional state.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Snakie on June 11, 2013, 06:12:00 PM
We don't really expect many kids to act their age, though, since most writers are adults.

Still, David's actions seem fitting for a wreck-less kid who probably, at least in a sense, saw morphing as a new toy to play around with.

I definitely think most of these kids seemed much older than their years, even in the early stages of the series before it became realistic character development, but theres still a number of things like this, and like the various opening chapter hijinx, that show that they still are children.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Tilas on June 11, 2013, 06:29:30 PM
In regards to the Chee, I think they were underused on purpose, because they sorta were a get out of jail free or god mode card. It was established early that they were super powerful, and I think that needed to be limited really fast or else, well, they could have done most of the work and the story would lose a lot of momentum.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: donut on June 11, 2013, 06:40:11 PM
No, a room would have been nice.  But the people I was with probably count as animals.  :P   Point is, a roof, a pillow and blanket on top of hay would have been a lot nicer.  People do it.

But I really do think he had the idea that he was better than other people, so he should get to do what he wants, everyone else should be ok with it, and anyone who isn't was an enemy that needed to be eliminated.


In regards to the Chee, I think they were underused on purpose, because they sorta were a get out of jail free or god mode card. It was established early that they were super powerful, and I think that needed to be limited really fast or else, well, they could have done most of the work and the story would lose a lot of momentum.

^ agreed, but it's fun to find other reasons   :)
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Duck, Duck, Goose on June 11, 2013, 08:35:36 PM
     I'm sure there are some people who would be okay with a barn so long as they had food, shelter, and warmth. But a large number--me included-- would throw a tantrum, start ranting and ****ing about how unfair everything is, etc. I don't think a lot of people want to admit that they would react as David did because he was such a prick in the series. Had he been more... human, I guess, then maybe people would be willing to say that they'd do the same. Of course, I'm talking about David's reaction to living in a barn--I'm not saying all of us would turn into murderers.

     His going axe-crazy with the morphing ability is pretty much the old "with great power comes great responsibility" bit. And, again, I think a lot of people would be very tempted to use their powers for personal gain--but hopefully not outright violence and identity theft.

     The kid has a superiority complex, an ego in need of stroking, that was probably the result of his moving around so much.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: DinosaurNothlit on June 11, 2013, 09:23:37 PM
I can't believe everybody missed the biggest (in-character, rather than plot-driven) reason that the Chee were so underused.  Their programming.  They can't impersonate Tom while Jake starves out the Yeerk, because in the process the Yeerk dies.

I see them giving information to the Animorphs as a bit of a grey area as far as their programming goes, a point which has been made before.  It's technically against their programming, but since they don't directly see or know about the Yeerks/hosts that get killed as a result of their information, they are still capable of at least giving the Animorphs tips.  And I guess they've decided that it's for the greater good, and so, at least some of them, are willing to go that far.  But no farther.  That's sorta the end of what they can do.

Short of blackmail, of course.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: donut on June 12, 2013, 11:48:42 PM
That's a good point.


I got one:  Why didn't the animorphs ever try to bring more yeerk technology to zone 9?  They had thought it a good idea at least in principle at one point when they tried to steal a bug fighter and bring it to the government.  Even if they couldn't reverse engineer it, it would have given them a little more preperation when open war did break out.  It's not like it would be too hard.  "Hey, there's a dracon beam.  Rachel, why don't you fly that over and drop it on their doorstep for them to find?"
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Chad32 on June 13, 2013, 04:59:27 PM
I think at one point it was decided the Humans couldn't defeat the Yeerks in an open war after all. I think at first it was believed the Yeerks went in secret because they could be beaten back in open conflict, but either that was never true, or things improved for the Yeerks to the point that it wasn't true anymore.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Duck, Duck, Goose on June 13, 2013, 07:40:04 PM

     First (because I'm very picky) it's Zone 91, not 9. But maybe your fingers slipped.

     Second: The quiet invasion route was insisted upon by Visser One (Edriss) while Visser Three was all for the open invasion. In Megamorphs 4: Back to Before, the Visser saw the Sharing's way of infestation as tiresome. I think it was said somewhere that Visser One only moved for quiet invasion out of fear for Darwin and Madra's lives (her "kids"). The Animorphs didn't want that to change; they knew they'd stand no chance at an all out war. They refused to killed Visser Three for that very reason--they feared that there would be a much bigger threat. Better the enemy you know, and all that.

     
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: NateSean on June 13, 2013, 08:42:37 PM
Questions about the Yeerks.

Why did it take until the last ten books for the Yeerks to catch on that the Animorphs were not Andalite bandits? We know there was speculation in the beginning but that people were afraid to say anything because Visser Three has a tenancy to get twitchy. Why did they think he would be any more open to the idea as Visser One?

Why was Visser One so eager to hand out morphing technology once he got ahold of the cube? He had his elite Hork-Bajir, why not only give morphing power to his closest lieutenants?

For that matter, the Yeerks themselves aren't getting the morphing power, it's their hosts. Are we sure that every single host that was given the morphing power was a voluntary controller and what are the implications if they weren't voluntary?
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Duck, Duck, Goose on June 13, 2013, 08:51:27 PM

     To the first: Maybe as Visser One he was more...confident? Maybe he was too worried that some of his superiors (particularly Visser One) would accuse him of incompetence (which I think was what Edriss argued in Visser anyway), or laugh at him and not invite them to their next barbecue. With Edriss out of the way, there would be no need for him to worry, and he'd have a better chance of convincing the council that open warfare would be more efficient.

     The second is actually rather odd for Visser Three's character. I mean, I'm pretty sure that he was milking that only Yeerk to have an Andalite host thing for as long as possible, and wouldn't want others to come close to taking away what made him special. So, maybe Esplin got more progressive in the last ten books? Also, it was probably a plot thing: the morphing power is what helped end the war.

     To the third: It would let the Yeerks stay Yeerks and have the satisfaction they get from controlling others; and they wouldn't have to worry about being so defenseless once they demorphed.

     All good questions, though. Kudos.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Chad32 on June 13, 2013, 08:56:41 PM
I thought it was out of character for V1 to give out the morphing power so freely, though I also thought it was out of character for him to just give up at the end, and claim his failure was because he was too trusting.

It bothered me, wondering if any of those morphed controllers still had involuntary hosts with no way to keeping themselves from being trapped forever with their Yeerk master. Like that one guy that Ax spared. Not that he had time to really check on that, but to just take it at face value isn't a good idea.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Duck, Duck, Goose on June 13, 2013, 08:58:40 PM

     Maybe Tom's Yeerk convinced Visser One that it would be a good idea?
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: MoppingBear on June 13, 2013, 11:36:51 PM
I think at one point it was decided the Humans couldn't defeat the Yeerks in an open war after all. I think at first it was believed the Yeerks went in secret because they could be beaten back in open conflict, but either that was never true, or things improved for the Yeerks to the point that it wasn't true anymore.

it wasnt that the yeerks thought they would lose (though they considered it a possibility) it was that winning via open war would require decimating the human population, which would kind of defeat the purpose of conquering us.

Questions about the Yeerks.

Why did it take until the last ten books for the Yeerks to catch on that the Animorphs were not Andalite bandits? We know there was speculation in the beginning but that people were afraid to say anything because Visser Three has a tenancy to get twitchy. Why did they think he would be any more open to the idea as Visser One?

Why was Visser One so eager to hand out morphing technology once he got ahold of the cube? He had his elite Hork-Bajir, why not only give morphing power to his closest lieutenants?

For that matter, the Yeerks themselves aren't getting the morphing power, it's their hosts. Are we sure that every single host that was given the morphing power was a voluntary controller and what are the implications if they weren't voluntary?
they had no reason to think it was a strong possibility, the animorphs were relatively careful about appearing to be andalites. visser 1 (original. seriously, the promotion is annoying because it makes it hard to distinguish sometimes... anyways) was particularly smart for a yeerk.

as to the second point, why wouldnt he? his andalite body was a "prize" not because of the morphing ability (at least not primarily) but because it was an ANDALITE, the mortal enemy of the yeerks.  with that in mind, handing out the morphing ability is little different from handing out dracon beams.

third, tom's yeerk at least did acquire the power himself, its reasonable to assume some of the others did as well.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Chad32 on June 13, 2013, 11:55:23 PM
I can understand it wouldn't matter if there were six billion of us if they had to kill so many just to defeat us. I think perhaps the exact reason was ambiguous in the beginning, which is not bad storytelling.

I guess maybe once the new V1 got the box, it was open war, and victory was all but ensured, it was inevitable that soon the Andalite Homeworld would fall. so holding back would only slow the inevitable. I just would expect him to be more conservative about who he handed the power to. Morphing is more dangerous than dracons.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: donut on June 14, 2013, 06:58:42 PM
The animorphs did believe open war would end in the yeerks defeat for most of the series.  Going by what the characters believed, open war was a favorable, if costly outcome.  It probably helped this mindset that Ax told them the seablade could be destroyed by the combined combat power of Earth's military.  Again, they did try once to take a bug fighter and give it to the government and expose the yeerk invasion.

BUT, whether it would be a good thing or bad thing, it still makes sense to be ready for it.  If the military could reverse engineer some of the tech, then it would have been huge.  If all they could do was understand the capabilities so they knew how to fight when the time came, that'd still be a great advantage.


Maybe they kept the morph capable hosts in special cells, or kept them unconscious while they didn't have a yeerk?

I'm betting it took so long for V3 to figure out they were human because he put andalites on a pedestal.  Only a highly trained group of andalites could be that damaging to his plans.  I think when they finally analyzed the DNA it kinda made it impossible to say otherwise.  I don't remember if it said they began analyzing the DNA before or after they thought the anis were human.  And there's always the possibility someone went ahead and did it on their own then told V3 about it.


Quote
They refused to killed Visser Three for that very reason--they feared that there would be a much bigger threat. Better the enemy you know, and all that.

Yeah, but they go back and forth on that so much.  They had at least 1 mission where the only intent was to kill V3.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: NateSean on June 14, 2013, 07:17:07 PM
that there would be a much bigger threat. Better the enemy you know, and all that.

Yeah, but they go back and forth on that so much.  They had at least 1 mission where the only intent was to kill V3.
[/quote]

That was Rachel's plan when she was in charge of the group. The only other time was when Ax was attempting to kill Visser Three and that wasn't a full mission in any real sense.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Duck, Duck, Goose on June 14, 2013, 09:01:16 PM

     And we all know how Rachel did as a leader :P

     "Let's morph Polar bears in California." Genius.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: donut on June 15, 2013, 01:33:45 AM
It does seem to show there wasn't a consensus on it, even enough conviction for the others to challenge the idea.  They also seemed to not have any problems trying to take an opportunity that showed up during the series.  Really the point being that the anis at least for a big part of the series didn't fear an open war.

I thought that book was really screwed up.  Rachel was fairly intelligent and knew how to do things earlier in the series.  Her character just kinda turned into a bad stereotype. 
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Duck, Duck, Goose on June 15, 2013, 01:38:02 AM

     That's all her books were about, eventually.

     Gotta wonder whose fault it was--K.A's, the Ghostwriters, or both?
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: NateSean on June 15, 2013, 04:30:28 AM
Rachel was fairly intelligent and knew how to do things earlier in the series.

She had never been in a position to lead though. And this is the next Rachel book after what had to be one of her most traumatic experiences ever. And the book before that had Drode proposing to her on behalf of Crayak.

So at this point in the series Rachel has been through quite a bit. To quote Firefly, Rachel is at the mouth of the volcano in The Weakness and we finally see the woman.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: donut on June 15, 2013, 10:11:11 PM
Contrast it with book 17 or even 22.  She may never had excellent people skills, but she did have good decision making abilities.  It all went out the window later, especially in the book where Jake leaves.  I  thought most that book was out of character for her, but I also thought her character was screwed up more than any character other than Cassie later in the series.



     That's all her books were about, eventually.

     Gotta wonder whose fault it was--K.A's, the Ghostwriters, or both?

Definitely ghost writers.  KA always stressed in depth characters.  The ghostwriters just kinda took the most obvious part of the character and ignored everything else.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Duck, Duck, Goose on June 15, 2013, 10:19:50 PM

     True. But the plots and stuff were still her idea, no? And I think she had to go over the manuscript before publishing...But I'm not sure.

     I just have to wonder if, maybe, K.A just got bored after the David Trilogy. There were still great books in the series--some of the best were post-David. But does anyone else get that feeling?
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: donut on June 15, 2013, 10:26:19 PM
I felt that way after book 26.  Except for book 25 which seemed 'off', all the ones before 27 were still really good (other than 4... that was.... yeah).  MM3 was pretty good though, and Visser is one of my favorites.

Honestly, I'm not sure how the ghostwriters worked.  I always knew something weird happened to the series partway through, but it wasn't until I got on here that I found out they were ghostwritten.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Chad32 on June 15, 2013, 10:36:22 PM
Usually outside of her books everyone thought she was like a berserker, but her own books humanized her. Even in book 48 she came to the decision that taking Crayak's offer was bad all on her own. Plus the last thing she thought of before dying was shopping. It's just sometimes they try to stress how much darker she was than the others, and imply that she wouldn't be able to cope after the war.

I felt sorry for her because she was one of the strongest characters on the team. She would have been able to handle it.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Duck, Duck, Goose on June 15, 2013, 10:55:40 PM

Even in book 48 she came to the decision that taking Crayak's offer was bad all on her own.

     I would certainly hope she would be able to easily decide that the evil creature that has plagued her and her friends since Animorphs 26: the Attack would not be one worth trusting :P

It's just sometimes they try to stress how much darker she was than the others, and imply that she wouldn't be able to cope after the war. I felt sorry for her because she was one of the strongest characters on the team. She would have been able to handle it.

     I have to disagree there--on her being able to survive the war.

     Rachel was opened to a whole new world, one she could never have conceived of before the war. Now, I'm not saying that Rachel would have had a meltdown once the war was over, but I think she would definitely be bored, or maybe even a tad upset that the war had ended at all--though, she probably would have hated herself for thinking that. But do you think Rachel could just go back to a normal life, pursuing a normal job--I personally pictured Rachel as becoming a lawyer, like her mom-- when she has done so much more? Even Marco seemed to get a little bored living his life of luxury, so who's to say that Rachel wouldn't have longed for the action of her Animorphs days?

     Then again, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Rachel would have managed to adjust perfectly. I just think that, given how Jake, Marco, Cassie, and Tobias never really maintained what you'd call a normal life, it's fair to say that Rachel couldn't either.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Snakie on June 18, 2013, 11:37:54 AM

     True. But the plots and stuff were still her idea, no? And I think she had to go over the manuscript before publishing...But I'm not sure.

     I just have to wonder if, maybe, K.A just got bored after the David Trilogy. There were still great books in the series--some of the best were post-David. But does anyone else get that feeling?

This.

There were books that were undeniably poorly written and in which characters really didn't behave as they should have, and that's on the ghost writers.

Near as I can tell, however, she never had a ghost writer come up with the idea of a book.  She outlined every story in detail before handing it off to a ghost writer.

If all the books still had solid premises and just weren't executed effectively we could put it all on the ghost writers, but that's not what we see here.  We get creepy mermaid people, entering Marco's body Magic School Bus style, and Cassie does Australia.  No ghost writer could have made those stories good.

RE: Rachel.  I've ALWAYS thought she was the "right" Animorph to give her life to the war and one of the reasons for that is the belief that I simply don't think she'd have done that well post war.  At best, I imagine post-war Rachel engaging in all manner of high risk behavior to her own detriment post-war.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Chad32 on June 18, 2013, 11:55:33 AM
I have more or less the opposite belief. I think among Marco and Cassie, she would have done fine. There are plenty of jobs that give excitement and moderate risk. I don't think she would have gone crazy or anything. I'm not even sure I'd say Cassie took it well. Just pushing everything about it aside is surely not the healthiest thing to do. Though people do handle stress and PTSD in different ways.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Tilas on June 18, 2013, 01:21:45 PM
While I never did get to finish reading the series, I do know how it all turns out, and it made sense to me.... mostly. I always figured if one of the main were to die it'd be Rachel or Ax.  When I was younger I thought Ax would go out in a blaze of glory in a final battle with Visser 3/1 causing both of their deaths. I dunno, it sort of seemed fitting for him to die fighting like his brother, but actually taking the Visser down with him.  As for Rachel, she was too twisted by war, she almost had to go, she'd never be able to re-adjust to life as a civilian.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: GokaiBlue on June 18, 2013, 08:09:47 PM
three questions:

1. Why did the Animorphs never try to attack Visser 3 in mid-morph? If it takes them a few minutes to morph birds then imagine how long it'd take for one of his giant abominations to be complete. Maybe they were distracted by Hork Bajir or something whenever he's morphing but I don't remember it ever crossing any of their minds to even attempt it.

2. Why didn't Cassie just stop Tom herself instead of stopping Jake from killing him? Maybe I read it wrong (it has been a while since I read that book) but they were both chasing Tom when he had the morphing cube. Sure Tom was athletic from basketball and Andalite hunting but there's no way in hell he could outrun a Tiger and a Wolf. If Cassie was so worried about Jake's shattered psyche from killing his own brother, she should of have incapacitated him. Tom lives, they keep the morphing cube, nobody's a traitor or a murderer.

3. Why did Rachel go fight Tom and Co. alone in #54? If she was kicking all that ass by herself, there's a good chance she could have lived if she at least had Cassie or Tobias (those two weren't doing anything anyway if I recall. At least Tobias wasn't) backing her up.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Chad32 on June 18, 2013, 09:14:13 PM
1. Usually he has soldiers with him. There was an occassion during the David arc where Ax got close enough to put his blade to v3's throat, and got him to order his troops to back off. Generally they just don't do it. Also sometimes they just don't know what he's morphing, and he may be morphing the more dangerous parts first.

2. I've had a big rant about that. The only thing I can say is neither character was thinking clearly.

3. I just chalk it up to KA wanting Rachel to die, so she died. Regardless of what you might say either way, it's obvious the author wanted the character dead, so Rachel died.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Duck, Duck, Goose on June 18, 2013, 09:17:20 PM
     1) They probably weren't out to kill him--refer to the "better the enemy I know" bit.

     2) Giving the morphing cube to the Yeerks ended the war.

     3) I reread 54: the Beginning, and Rachel wasn't kicking as much as as one would think. She was pretty bad ass, but it didn't change the fact that it was something like six to one. But yea, you'd think she would have had back up. But, for story's sake, it made her sacrifice significant.

     Edit: I posted this just as Chad responded.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Tilas on June 18, 2013, 09:20:34 PM
three questions:

1. Why did the Animorphs never try to attack Visser 3 in mid-morph? If it takes them a few minutes to morph birds then imagine how long it'd take for one of his giant abominations to be complete.

The same reason no one ever attacked Sailor Moon during her 3 minute glittery flashy magical transformation sequences. :XD:
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Duck, Duck, Goose on June 18, 2013, 09:26:01 PM

     ^So, the Animorphs were too busy staring at a naked Visser Three to attack him? Because that's why I figured the mooks didn't attack Sailor Moon while she transformed.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Chad32 on June 18, 2013, 09:27:29 PM
     1) They probably weren't out to kill him--refer to the "better the enemy I know" bit.

     2) Giving the morphing cube to the Yeerks ended the war.

     3) I reread 54: the Beginning, and Rachel wasn't kicking as much as as one would think. She was pretty bad ass, but it didn't change the fact that it was something like six to one. But yea, you'd think she would have had back up. But, for story's sake, it made her sacrifice significant.

     Edit: I posted this just as Chad responded.

Yeah, there was the idea of leaving him alive, which would make it even more dangerous, since you're trying to incapacitate him without killing him and have to hold back.

Yeah the idea of giving the cube to the Yeerks ending the war is debatable, but I'd rather not go into another big rant unless you want to go there.

The only two things that kept Rachel from clearing the bridge was not quite killing the polar bear morpher, and not paying attention to what Tom was morphing. Though honestly since when does a tap not render a Human unconscious anyway?

Like I said, if Applegate wnated her to live, she would have had rachel succeed. she wanted Rachel to die, so Rachel died regardless of anything else happening.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Duck, Duck, Goose on June 18, 2013, 09:38:24 PM
Yeah the idea of giving the cube to the Yeerks ending the war is debatable, but I'd rather not go into another big rant unless you want to go there.

     Sure, why not? It's technically on topic. Go for it.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Chad32 on June 18, 2013, 09:49:43 PM
Okie dokie. In the last Cassie book before 50, she thinks the Yeerks getting their hands on the cube would be the worst thing ever. I really don't think anything happened between those books to change her mind. She was under stress in 50 as well as Jake, and I'm pretty sure she was only thinking of keeping Jake from going 'free or dead" on Tom. It wasn't until after she did it, and maybe saw some Yeerks willing to escape (no proof that they weren't taking involuntary hosts with them) that suddenly she thought it was a good idea. This is not how you make such important decisions.

Second, I'm not sure how it was the deciding factor at all. Or how offering nothlitism to yeerks under controlled conditions wouldn't have done the same thing if it was actually discussed beforehand. Yes it caused some Yeerks to turn traitor. I don't think they needed to hand an escafil device to v3 to do that. In the end, she's partly responsible for Rachel dying. This was not a well thought out plan that she consulted with the group over. This was a spur of the moment event, and when something remotely beneficial happened, she clung to that and made excuses about it. In the end I do believe it hurt more than it helped. It wasn't needed to get aboard the pool chip, if I remember correctly.

Even if it did make all the difference, which is debatable, it could have been done better.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Duck, Duck, Goose on June 18, 2013, 10:15:17 PM

     
Okie dokie. In the last Cassie book before 50, she thinks the Yeerks getting their hands on the cube would be the worst thing ever. I really don't think anything happened between those books to change her mind.

     This is a very good point that I hadn't thought of--and it bugs me that I didn't. It kind of makes Animorphs 39: the Hidden kind of pointless, doesn't it? I'll have to double check to see if she actually said that, but it's not like I don't believe you. 44: the Unexpected?

Second, I'm not sure how it was the deciding factor at all... Yes it caused some Yeerks to turn traitor. I don't think they needed to hand an escafil device to v3 to do that. In the end, she's partly responsible for Rachel dying. This was not a well thought out plan that she consulted with the group over... It wasn't needed to get aboard the pool chip, if I remember correctly.

     Here is where I have to disagree. I feel that handing the morphing cube over to the Yeerks was the game changer.

      1) It convinced a lot of Yeerks to go traitor, like you said. You were correct in saying that the Escafil device wasn't needed to do so. I'd say it made it EASIER.
 
     Think how fragile the Yeerk Invasion on Earth was with Visser Three messing things up--constantly giving his subordinates reasons to jump ship and plot his death-- and the Yeerk Peace Movement was helping the supposed Andalite Bandits. Then, of course, you have the ambition among the lower ranks and infighting between the Yeerks themselves. Image how much easier it would be for the common, low level Yeerk to prove himself when he has a morph capable host? It would be enough to convince the Council that, maybe said Yeerk would be more competent than old deranged Esplin.

     2) It convinced the Taxxons to switch over to the "good" side.

     This was crucial. If I remember correctly--from what I glimpsed at in Animorphs 54: the Beginning-- it was what let the Animorphs gain access on to the Pool Ship--along with the Auxiliaries and General Doubleday's team.

Even if it did make all the difference, which is debatable, it could have been done better.

     Agreed. It was a risky move and could have easily blown up in their faces.
     
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Chad32 on June 18, 2013, 10:28:50 PM
I forget how the Taxxons helped the anis get into the pool ship. I think this was the first book to show them sympathetically, and it came as a surprise to me, even after KA showing the other races the same way. Well there was the fact that the hive mound could keep them from being hunger crazy. Still, if the Anis wanted the Taxxons to help in exchange for becoming nothlits, that goes back to the idea that they could have done a better job if this idea was actually thought out and the issue discussed amongst the group.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Duck, Duck, Goose on June 18, 2013, 10:36:00 PM

     Agreed. But, one could argue that they would never have agreed to do it if it hadn't been thought up by Cassie--or anyone-- at the last minute.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Chad32 on June 18, 2013, 10:47:46 PM
I know there's less of a chance of that happening, but it's a much less risky and more reasonable choice than the alternative. I believe the Yeerk military is mostly made up of people who can either do as the Vissers say, or starve to death. It's not because they're evil and want to conquer the galaxy. Any Yeerk with any decency should defect if you say they can have whatever body they want, and live peacefully in it. People like aftran use the reasoning that being a sentient slug in a pool all your life sucks. If you take away that reasoning, and the power the Vissers hold over them, why fight?

It's not perfect, but neither is what happened. It's just that what happened was a lucky break, not a tactical success.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Duck, Duck, Goose on June 18, 2013, 11:03:36 PM

     Which was luck--that the morphing thing worked out? Or the final battle? Because the battle was a combination of luck and having some really powerful and useful allies.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Chad32 on June 18, 2013, 11:09:43 PM
That the morphing thing actually helped at all. That was pure luck. The battle wasn't all luck, though.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Duck, Duck, Goose on June 19, 2013, 12:01:39 AM

     I think I can agree with that.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Chad32 on June 19, 2013, 09:53:06 AM
On a lighter note, why didn't they just get duck/goose morphs the first time they needed to fly long distances? It was always annoying to hear them go on about how raptors can't fly a logn way without getting tired, and they needed to fly so far apart to not draw attention. You know, there's a simple solution to that, right? Also Tobias should have gotten an owl morph, and stopped complaining about how he couldn't see well in the dark.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: MoppingBear on June 19, 2013, 01:50:38 PM
On a lighter note, why didn't they just get duck/goose morphs the first time they needed to fly long distances? It was always annoying to hear them go on about how raptors can't fly a logn way without getting tired, and they needed to fly so far apart to not draw attention. You know, there's a simple solution to that, right? Also Tobias should have gotten an owl morph, and stopped complaining about how he couldn't see well in the dark.
As to the first question, would you believe they just didnt think of it? seriously, these are 13-14 year old kids with the choice acquiring a lame duck or an awesome bird of prey, what do you think they are going to choose? later on when they finally do acquire ducks, they berate themselves for not doing it sooner. as to tobias getting an owl morph, i dont know if it was ever outright stated in the books, but it seemed like it was a matter of pride for him.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Chad32 on June 19, 2013, 02:19:17 PM
Tobias does seem to have strong opinions about other birds.

I can understand if they didn't think of it the first, or maybe second time they needed to fly a long distance, but it shouldn't have taken three years for it to occur to them. Yes they're teenagers. That means they're smart enough to know some birds are actually built for endurance, and travel in groups.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Duck, Duck, Goose on June 19, 2013, 04:05:28 PM

     Not to mention the fact that they have a freaking animal expert on their team!
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: donut on June 19, 2013, 08:09:28 PM
Or that Tobias mentioned geese were long distance flyers at least once...
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: NateSean on June 22, 2013, 09:32:40 AM
Even grown ups have to stick a penny in a light socket once in awhile. I honestly believe that it just never occurred to them until that one time. Although what specifically made Marco, Ax and Tobias decide to acquire ducks that one time would be the more interesting question. (And please don't just say The Ellemist. He's becoming the Animorphs equivalent of "The Force")

Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Snakie on June 26, 2013, 09:31:18 PM
I realize this probably belongs in a "Seriously though, why didn't the Yeerks just...." thread, but I was reading #9 The Secret the other day where they were attempting to find Andalites by chopping down the forest they were convinced they were hiding in.

In said book, Cassie morphs a wolf and immediately recognizes an unfamiliar smell of "Andalite".  Given Andalites have a unique smell and the Yeerks have an andalite body handy as a reference, why don't they just use blood hounds to sniff out Ax's scoop?  I don't get the impression his scoop is particularly far from human civilization.

I know they always had a built in excuse that Visser 3 doesn't know anything about Earth animals, but you'd think at some point some eager to advance human controller would say "you know, Visser, humans use these blood hound creatures to track things down all the time".

Just something that hit me while I was reading.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Duck, Duck, Goose on June 26, 2013, 10:05:57 PM
I realize this probably belongs in a "Seriously though, why didn't the Yeerks just...." thread, but I was reading #9 The Secret the other day where they were attempting to find Andalites by chopping down the forest they were convinced they were hiding in.

In said book, Cassie morphs a wolf and immediately recognizes an unfamiliar smell of "Andalite".  Given Andalites have a unique smell and the Yeerks have an andalite body handy as a reference, why don't they just use blood hounds to sniff out Ax's scoop?  I don't get the impression his scoop is particularly far from human civilization.

I know they always had a built in excuse that Visser 3 doesn't know anything about Earth animals, but you'd think at some point some eager to advance human controller would say "you know, Visser, humans use these blood hound creatures to track things down all the time".

Just something that hit me while I was reading.

     Feel free to post any "Seriously, why didn't" moments here. It's not just the Animorphs' stupidity that we're interested in :P

     You make a good point, Snakie. Of course, one must remember what tends to happen to Yeerks who suggest things to Visser Three.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Chad32 on June 26, 2013, 10:20:44 PM
It's fridge logic, I guess. Something you think of that would be considerably easier to do. They could have scoured the forest with bloodhounds, putting a story in the paper about a missing child so people wouldn't think the search parties were suspicious. I'm not sure why they couldn't find a more subtle and cheaper way than clear cutting a forest.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Tim Bruening on October 31, 2013, 02:34:34 AM
To keep this thread going, why didn't the Animorphs just hide David away until they could take care of the world leaders mission and ease him into things more slowly?

Trying to train a new Animorph and bring him along on their most crucial mission yet created tension they really weren't equipped to deal with at the moment, and shouldn't they have eased the new Animorph in with some smaller missions and morphing sessions first?  Was having a 7th person for THAT mission REALLY that critical?

They could have parked David with the free Hork-Bajir until they had the world leaders settled.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Altephor on March 08, 2014, 09:00:37 PM
There's a million of the 'why didn't they just' scenarios in Animorphs, especially towards the end.

Why didn't they just kidnap Tom?  Someone mentioned that the Chee couldn't replace him because it results in a Yeerk death, but they replace the Animorphs all the time and hundreds of Yeerks, Hork-Bajir, and Taxxons are killed in the process.  So that's a moot point.  In book 31, Tom is isolated with Jake in the mountains with his family.  Away from the Yeerk forces.  Bring the gang, tie him up in the woods, have someone morph him so the family doesn't get suspicious.  Done.  Easy.

The biggest one that bothers me is the Yeerks being able to morph.  Because it's the host body that's morphing.  The presumably unwilling host, which the Yeerks will have to leave every 3 days to feed.  So now you have tons of unwilling humans, with the power to morph, and they can't fight/escape from the Yeerk pool?  What!?  The animorphs have been infiltrating, fighting, and escaping the Yeerk pool the ENTIRE series, and there are SIX of them!  And now hundreds of humans with access to birds, leopards, etc can't make it out of some measly cages? 

For that matter, why even keep the human hosts at all!?  Just aquire your human host, then kill them.  Now you have able bodies, and less humans to fight against.  Not that there's any reason to fight anymore, because.. NOW YOU HAVE ABLE BODIES, aka the entire reason the Yeerks are an issue in the first place.  The whole 'Yeerks can now morph' thing was handled so poorly it was almost cringe worthy.  Not to mention, they could have aquired and morphed their own Hork-Bajir, which the Yeerks themselves describe as basically being the perfect host body, able to fight as well as being dexterous enough to build things with.  So I can totally see why, given the ability to morph, they would choose a lot of birds instead.  Hell, they all could've acquired Visser One and went around in Andalite morphs.  We've already seen that an Andalite is more than a good match for any Earth animal.

Why didn't the animorphs use Dracon beams?  The only instance I can think of in which they did was when Marco fried a helicopter while protecting the governor.  There's tons of times where the Animorphs get a hold of them and they just toss them away.  Why not keep them?  Same for the Hork-Bajir!  For god's sake, they've 'raided' hundreds of Yeerk outposts by the end of the series, and yet when the Yeerks attack they defend the valley with sharp sticks!  Are you kidding me!?

And why are they in a valley in the middle of nowhere anyway?  Once they free the governor, they have military backup.  Uninfested, informed military personnel.  Instead they live in the woods with little shelter, rather than move to a secured military compound.  Continue to defend with sharp sticks and holes dug into the ground, instead of anti-aircraft guns and artillery shells.

But at the end of the day, I guess the only answer that makes sense is that they are kid's books.  All the bad guys have to be horribly stupid and have terribly bad aim because if they didn't, they should've fried the Animorphs in the first book and continued to take over mankind.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: MoppingBear on March 09, 2014, 11:47:38 AM
There's a million of the 'why didn't they just' scenarios in Animorphs, especially towards the end.

Why didn't they just kidnap Tom?  Someone mentioned that the Chee couldn't replace him because it results in a Yeerk death, but they replace the Animorphs all the time and hundreds of Yeerks, Hork-Bajir, and Taxxons are killed in the process.  So that's a moot point.  In book 31, Tom is isolated with Jake in the mountains with his family.  Away from the Yeerk forces.  Bring the gang, tie him up in the woods, have someone morph him so the family doesn't get suspicious.  Done.  Easy.
Mostly because it would heap a lot of suspicion onto Jake being an Andalite bandit.  The Chee couldn't replace him because he was an established and I believe reasonably high ranking controller.  Erik was "infested", he did not replace an existing controller.

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The biggest one that bothers me is the Yeerks being able to morph.  Because it's the host body that's morphing.  The presumably unwilling host, which the Yeerks will have to leave every 3 days to feed.  So now you have tons of unwilling humans, with the power to morph, and they can't fight/escape from the Yeerk pool?  What!?  The animorphs have been infiltrating, fighting, and escaping the Yeerk pool the ENTIRE series, and there are SIX of them!  And now hundreds of humans with access to birds, leopards, etc can't make it out of some measly cages? 
Some Yeerks (like Tom's) did acquire it for their Slug body.  I don't know how well they controlled what morphs the hosts got, but presumably if the war had kept going a significant amount of time after that, it would have become an issue.

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For that matter, why even keep the human hosts at all!?  Just aquire your human host, then kill them.  Now you have able bodies, and less humans to fight against.  Not that there's any reason to fight anymore, because.. NOW YOU HAVE ABLE BODIES, aka the entire reason the Yeerks are an issue in the first place.  The whole 'Yeerks can now morph' thing was handled so poorly it was almost cringe worthy.  Not to mention, they could have aquired and morphed their own Hork-Bajir, which the Yeerks themselves describe as basically being the perfect host body, able to fight as well as being dexterous enough to build things with.  So I can totally see why, given the ability to morph, they would choose a lot of birds instead.  Hell, they all could've acquired Visser One and went around in Andalite morphs.  We've already seen that an Andalite is more than a good match for any Earth animal.
That ws why (supposedly) Cassie let Tom get away with the morphing cube.  She knew it would lead to the war ending because the main reason for fighting was gone.

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Why didn't the animorphs use Dracon beams?  The only instance I can think of in which they did was when Marco fried a helicopter while protecting the governor.  There's tons of times where the Animorphs get a hold of them and they just toss them away.  Why not keep them?  Same for the Hork-Bajir!  For god's sake, they've 'raided' hundreds of Yeerk outposts by the end of the series, and yet when the Yeerks attack they defend the valley with sharp sticks!  Are you kidding me!?
They actually didn't get the chance that often, but the main reason?  How would they use them?  Most animals can't, and they can't exactly run around in their human bodies shooting Hork Bajir.

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And why are they in a valley in the middle of nowhere anyway?  Once they free the governor, they have military backup.  Uninfested, informed military personnel.  Instead they live in the woods with little shelter, rather than move to a secured military compound.  Continue to defend with sharp sticks and holes dug into the ground, instead of anti-aircraft guns and artillery shells.
That valley in the middle of nowhere is hidden by the Elimmist.  A military base, even an underground one, would have been trivial for the Yeerks to destroy from orbit.

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But at the end of the day, I guess the only answer that makes sense is that they are kid's books.  All the bad guys have to be horribly stupid and have terribly bad aim because if they didn't, they should've fried the Animorphs in the first book and continued to take over mankind.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: RYTX on March 09, 2014, 12:54:40 PM
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That valley in the middle of nowhere is hidden by the Elimmist.  A military base, even an underground one, would have been trivial for the Yeerks to destroy from orbit.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: NateSean on March 09, 2014, 05:41:08 PM
What's really funny is that I had typed up a whole post in response to this, but something happened and I lost the post completely. Rather than retype it, I went on with my day with the intention of retyping that same post. Mopping Bear hit on pretty much all of the points I had made. :p

So way to go Mopping Bear and thank you to Altephor for adding to the discussion. ;) So what do I have to add?

The other problem with the Dracon beams is that they are mostly accounted for. Aftran lost one and was punished for it, but presumably there are fail safes in place to keep a primitive species from getting a hold of the technology and hurting the Yeerks with it. I make this guess based on the fact that the Yeerk Mother Ship has a tightly monitored security network that rivals that of the world's most secure locations. So the fact that they would slip up on something like a Dracon beam doesn't add up when you see how thorough they are.

Plus, the Dracon weapon is pretty distinctive and could be easily traced if it was fired. Having an alien weapon doesn't make using it a free action. Remember when Rachel got ahold of one in The Underground, she maybe got two or three shots in before she drew attention.

What made the morphing technology so useful was that it was inside of them and easy to access. A Dracon weapon would have been a logistical impracticality.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Jdorsey314 on April 23, 2014, 01:30:46 PM
They didn't know the limit on morphs you could hold at the start of the series, and over time they got the impression it was a lot.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: NateSean on April 24, 2014, 04:26:03 AM
Are you responding to any point in particular or were you just throwing that out there?
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: pallosalama on April 26, 2014, 01:10:40 PM
I have few things in my mind. These might not be all exactly on subject but I'll say them anyways.

First, why did the Dracon beams have so large variation of damage? I know there were different power levels they could be used at. But still, for example in few books I remember that they got shot at with Dracon beams, and most of time all they did was punch holes in them(usually in battle morph) or make parts of body vanish. Yet other times whole animals vaporized or big parts of them. If this was because of different power settings, well I wonder why would yeerks have used low-power setting in real battle where they were trying to kill them all the time?

Second. WHY so many times when they "planned" on doing things, they left so many things out of consideration. I remember countless times when they were going in somewhere and I couldn't believe how poorly they had planned it all.

And finally, have to say there is great connection between Yeerk fighters and Stormtroopers. Hows that? Well, both are well-trained(at least I hope so) soldier groups, yet they can't hit anything even at close range, and if the impossible thing happened and they did, it was never a lethal hit.

 :huh:
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: NateSean on April 26, 2014, 07:41:59 PM
Yet other times whole animals vaporized or big parts of them. If this was because of different power settings, well I wonder why would yeerks have used low-power setting in real battle where they were trying to kill them all the time?

Presumably the lower settings on the Dracon beams were "stun" settings. The Yeerks would rather injure an Andalite and bring it in for questioning and possible infestation. That's not the explanation for every single time, mind you, but it would account for certain instances.

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Second.

It's one of those things that's easy to second guess from the safety of retrospect. I make mistakes planning breakfast every morning. So I can only imagine how poorly I would do trying to fight an invading army of aliens on top of managing grades and keeping my parents in the dark.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: pallosalama on May 15, 2014, 05:02:20 PM
New thought popped on my head, was too lazy to search if there was similar thread for Yeersk, so I just post it here.
First, I know as in said throughout series, Yeerks do not fight if there is too small chances to try. But, when not thinking about that,
why in book #6 the yeerk didn't nothlit himself and Jake to take off big part of Animorphs fighting strength? I mean, he
had access to Jakes brain and so on, and therefore would sure notice importance of Jake as leader and fellow Animorph to others.
Would have been huge drawback for them.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Chad32 on May 15, 2014, 05:16:47 PM
Plot reasons. If he morphed a fly, and gave them an ultimatum, there wasn't really anything Jake's friends could do about it. They couldn't afford to take the Yeerk back to his people, and they couldn't force him to demorph. Taking Jake with him would have been the smartest thing to do as a last ditch effort, but since the others would be powerless to stop it, the author just didn't have him do it.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: RYTX on May 15, 2014, 06:49:50 PM
Alternatively, he may just not have thought of it.

Example, I first read that book probably 15 years ago. I've read it repeatedly since then, and critically reflected on the story many times. Probably not 3 days of intimate proximity worth like the Yeerk had, but still plenty of time. Yet seeing your post made me think, "omg, I've never thought of that, you are an evil genius".

And that early on, I wonder if the Yeerk would realize Jake was as critical as he was, especially when only getting Jake's POV on the matter. The boy never thought his leadership was all that, and this was before they'd really started doing damage.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Chad32 on May 15, 2014, 07:04:27 PM
Number 7 was when they really started hurting the Yeerks, aside from when they wrecked the supply ship, but we don't hear about Yeerks dying because a shipment of air and water didn't make it back to base.

"He just didn't think of it" may have actually been true. That's the best we can do. I don't think that, after reading that book for the first time, I thought "man they're lucky he didn't just stay in a bug morph and take Jake with them". It just goes to show how close Jake got to being screwed.

Maybe it would have been better if he just died on the plan after all, if the Yeerk was going to pull that stunt.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: NateSean on May 16, 2014, 07:34:04 AM
Well the other thing was why didn't Temrash just start blaring thought-speak while in morph. I don't know how far that shack in the woods was supposed to be but I bet he could have given them a real run for their money if he started broadcasting his location on the off chance that someone might hear him.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Chad32 on May 16, 2014, 09:10:04 AM
And the other controllers would know this wasn't some Andalite trap...how?
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Duck, Duck, Goose on May 16, 2014, 07:34:30 PM

      I also didn't consider this. My guess is that the Yeerks was just too excited about his good luck, finding a morph capable human, and was too busy imagining himself as Visser or a council member instead of thinking. Plus, he was probably really nervous once he got closer and closer to the fugue.

     Or he was just a stupid, stupid Yeerk.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Chad32 on May 16, 2014, 07:58:06 PM
in his defense, blowing this whole Andalite Bandit problem out of the water would have done wonders for him. Assuming Visser Three didn't grab all the credit. We could come up with different reasons he didn't do things that KA couldn't see the Animorphs dealing well with.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: pallosalama on May 17, 2014, 05:45:21 AM
in his defense, blowing this whole Andalite Bandit problem out of the water would have done wonders for him. Assuming Visser Three didn't grab all the credit. We could come up with different reasons he didn't do things that KA couldn't see the Animorphs dealing well with.
Knowing V3 it is kind of obvious what would have happened to someone who wanted to credit themselves for something... But then again this yeerk in Jake's head did want power and maybe wouldn't have thought about it. I agree on the last part, it is good however that threads like this exists. Thinking about other possible outcomes is never bad thing.

Yet seeing your post made me think, "omg, I've never thought of that, you are an evil genius".
Well, thank you.  ;D
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Chad32 on May 17, 2014, 09:27:08 AM
Yeah, it's good to ask this kind of stuff. It's a good thread.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: NateSean on May 20, 2014, 08:40:26 AM
And the other controllers would know this wasn't some Andalite trap...how?

They had no problem following up on the "distress signal" in The Predator.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Chad32 on May 20, 2014, 09:13:49 AM
Very true. Nice catch.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Tim Bruening on June 17, 2015, 03:05:29 AM
Why don't the Animorphs have the free Hork-Bajir kidnap random Human-Controllers (including Tom and Chapman) and starve the Yeerks out of them?

During the time the Animorphs had the morphing cube, why didn't they expose their most trusted friends to the cube, such as Jara Hamee the Hork-Bajir Seer?  Surely they can vet their friends to make sure they can be trusted.  (They had no opportunity to vet David, so its not surprising that making David an Animorph went haywire).

The Animorphs can easily spy on potential morphing candidates.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: NateSean on June 18, 2015, 12:58:39 PM
Toby was the Seer, not Jara. I would agree with giving Toby the morphing power, but I highly doubt the other Hork-Bajir have the mental facilities to handle the morphing technology. It'd be like the Buffahuman thing all over again, only the Hork-Bajir would draw more attention since the Yeerks would know what to look for. Then there's the fact that the Yeerks found the hidden valley because they recaptured a Hork-Bajir and that didn't end well for either party.

The reason they didn't trust their friends is simple: They couldn't trust their friends. Even if they had a few close friends they absolutely knew were not controllers, what would give them the right to jump their friends into an all out war? This was the life and death process of fighting the Yeerk invasion, not selling cookies for the school band. As for the Animorphs "easily spying" on potential candidates, Tobias spied on a woman for several days without ever putting two and two together that she was the female morph of Visser Three.

Why didn't the Animorphs have the Hork-Bajir capture human controllers? Because people would notice their friends and family going missing. A former human controller wouldn't be able to go back into regular society while the Yeerks were still a threat and where are you going to keep them? The Hork-Bajir valley? The Hork-Bajir Valley wasn't meant to be the couch that the Animorphs could invite people to sleep on whenever they needed a place to crash.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Nar Klawip on June 20, 2015, 01:25:16 PM
Why didn't the Animorphs have the Hork-Bajir capture human controllers? Because people would notice their friends and family going missing. A former human controller wouldn't be able to go back into regular society while the Yeerks were still a threat and where are you going to keep them? The Hork-Bajir valley? The Hork-Bajir Valley wasn't meant to be the couch that the Animorphs could invite people to sleep on whenever they needed a place to crash.

That, and the Horkies weren't exactly Einsteins. It'd be like sending Forrest Gump to kidnap someone. They could easily panic and hurt someone, and the second something went wrong they'd have no idea what to do. Also it'd be incredibly difficult for them to make their way through town without being spotted by someone, controller or not. 7 foot tall bladed lizard men tend to stick out.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Tim Bruening on June 20, 2015, 04:28:45 PM
Why didn't the Animorphs have the Hork-Bajir capture human controllers? Because people would notice their friends and family going missing. A former human controller wouldn't be able to go back into regular society while the Yeerks were still a threat and where are you going to keep them? The Hork-Bajir valley? The Hork-Bajir Valley wasn't meant to be the couch that the Animorphs could invite people to sleep on whenever they needed a place to crash.

That, and the Horkies weren't exactly Einsteins. It'd be like sending Forrest Gump to kidnap someone. They could easily panic and hurt someone, and the second something went wrong they'd have no idea what to do. Also it'd be incredibly difficult for them to make their way through town without being spotted by someone, controller or not. 7 foot tall bladed lizard men tend to stick out.

For some time before "The Pretender", the Hork-Bajir had been kidnapping Hork-Bajir Controllers.  It therefore seems logical to have them kidnap Human-Controllers as well.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Tim Bruening on June 20, 2015, 04:36:39 PM
Why didn't the Animorphs have the Hork-Bajir capture human controllers? Because people would notice their friends and family going missing. A former human controller wouldn't be able to go back into regular society while the Yeerks were still a threat and where are you going to keep them? The Hork-Bajir valley? The Hork-Bajir Valley wasn't meant to be the couch that the Animorphs could invite people to sleep on whenever they needed a place to crash.
That, and the Horkies weren't exactly Einsteins. It'd be like sending Forrest Gump to kidnap someone. They could easily panic and hurt someone, and the second something went wrong they'd have no idea what to do. Also it'd be incredibly difficult for them to make their way through town without being spotted by someone, controller or not. 7 foot tall bladed lizard men tend to stick out.

Okay, I'll send some Chee to back up the Hork-Bajir.  The Chee would use their holograms to conceal the Hork-Bajir, and help them transport the kidnapped Controllers.

Or I could have ALL the Animorphs acquire gorilla morphs so that they can overcome and carry the Human-Controllers.  (Why should Marco be the only gorilla?).

Or both of the above.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Dylan on June 20, 2015, 04:38:31 PM
Why didn't the Animorphs have the Hork-Bajir capture human controllers? Because people would notice their friends and family going missing. A former human controller wouldn't be able to go back into regular society while the Yeerks were still a threat and where are you going to keep them? The Hork-Bajir valley? The Hork-Bajir Valley wasn't meant to be the couch that the Animorphs could invite people to sleep on whenever they needed a place to crash.

That, and the Horkies weren't exactly Einsteins. It'd be like sending Forrest Gump to kidnap someone. They could easily panic and hurt someone, and the second something went wrong they'd have no idea what to do. Also it'd be incredibly difficult for them to make their way through town without being spotted by someone, controller or not. 7 foot tall bladed lizard men tend to stick out.

For some time before "The Pretender", the Hork-Bajir had been kidnapping Hork-Bajir Controllers.  It therefore seems logical to have them kidnap Human-Controllers as well.
Humans going missing for 3 days and then coming back and screaming about how aliens were in their head is a little more suspicious. HB proably aren't smart enough to catch human controllers anyway.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Tim Bruening on June 20, 2015, 05:50:56 PM
Why didn't the Animorphs have the Hork-Bajir capture human controllers? Because people would notice their friends and family going missing. A former human controller wouldn't be able to go back into regular society while the Yeerks were still a threat and where are you going to keep them? The Hork-Bajir valley? The Hork-Bajir Valley wasn't meant to be the couch that the Animorphs could invite people to sleep on whenever they needed a place to crash.

That, and the Horkies weren't exactly Einsteins. It'd be like sending Forrest Gump to kidnap someone. They could easily panic and hurt someone, and the second something went wrong they'd have no idea what to do. Also it'd be incredibly difficult for them to make their way through town without being spotted by someone, controller or not. 7 foot tall bladed lizard men tend to stick out.

For some time before "The Pretender", the Hork-Bajir had been kidnapping Hork-Bajir Controllers.  It therefore seems logical to have them kidnap Human-Controllers as well.
Humans going missing for 3 days and then coming back and screaming about how aliens were in their head is a little more suspicious. HB proably aren't smart enough to catch human controllers anyway.

Who said that I was going to let the freed humans return to town?  I was going to give them refuge at the HB valley, and provide the HB with technical assistance to pay for their keep.  I was also thinking of have the Chee fake their deaths.

Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: DinosaurNothlit on June 20, 2015, 07:40:58 PM
Kidnapping and freeing human-controllers might work for a little while, but it wouldn't take long for the Yeerks to catch on to what was happening.  Or at least to the fact that SOMETHING was wrong.  Even if the Animorphs started faking their deaths, the Yeerks would wonder why a disproportionate number of controllers were suddenly 'dying.'  They would then beef up security around the remaining controllers, maybe start having all of them carry Dracons with them wherever they went, as a precaution against whatever-was-happening.

Dracon > Hork-bajir.  :P
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Nar Klawip on June 20, 2015, 11:18:29 PM
After Cassie trapped herself as a caterpillar, why did the Anis not take better care of her? Even if they didn't know undergoing a metamorphosis would reset her morph clock, did they seriously just leave her out in the open like that as a cocoon? Why didn't they put her in a jar or something to keep her safe?
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: DinosaurNothlit on June 20, 2015, 11:53:08 PM
Oh, man, I just thought of one.

In #22, when they're trying to trick David into morphing rat to go underground to look for the blue box . . . why didn't he just morph rattlesnake instead?  A rattlesnake could go pretty much anywhere a rat could go.  I know he thought he had the other Animorphs as hostages, but, still, it never hurts to go for the extra ace in the hole.

The Animorphs' whole plan for him could've completely fallen apart, just like that.  He'd probably have been able to get out of the cage they'd set up for him, and even if not, he could have bitten Rachel as soon as he'd sensed something wrong.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Tim Bruening on June 21, 2015, 12:47:24 AM
Kidnapping and freeing human-controllers might work for a little while, but it wouldn't take long for the Yeerks to catch on to what was happening.  Or at least to the fact that SOMETHING was wrong.  Even if the Animorphs started faking their deaths, the Yeerks would wonder why a disproportionate number of controllers were suddenly 'dying.'  They would then beef up security around the remaining controllers, maybe start having all of them carry Dracons with them wherever they went, as a precaution against whatever-was-happening.

Dracon > Hork-bajir.  :P

My hope is that the Animorphs/free Hork-Bajir/Chee would be able to keep up the kidnappings long enough to free Tom and any other of their relatives and friends who have been Yeerked.  My proposed kidnapping spree would just be a smoke screen to camoplage the rescue of Tom.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Nar Klawip on June 21, 2015, 02:11:19 AM
Oh, man, I just thought of one.

In #22, when they're trying to trick David into morphing rat to go underground to look for the blue box . . . why didn't he just morph rattlesnake instead?  A rattlesnake could go pretty much anywhere a rat could go.  I know he thought he had the other Animorphs as hostages, but, still, it never hurts to go for the extra ace in the hole.

The Animorphs' whole plan for him could've completely fallen apart, just like that.  He'd probably have been able to get out of the cage they'd set up for him, and even if not, he could have bitten Rachel as soon as he'd sensed something wrong.

I'm not so sure a rattlesnake can go everywhere a rat can. Aren't adult rattlesnakes several feet long? With big heads? Also even if most aren't, i'm sure David (being David) acquired the largest one he could. His rattler morph probably couldn't fit through all the narrow pipes. And even if it was small enough, he still had to carry out the pieces of the cube which would be really hard as a snake.

And even if that all would have worked, David was supremely arrogant and ****y. He didn't think he needed any extra insurance, and the gang pretty cleverly manipulated him into thinking so.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Dylan on June 21, 2015, 02:22:45 AM
I'm suprised they never used Lions, Giraffes, Zebras, Bald Eagle, Ospreys, Whales, and Hyenas on the covers.  Also, that they used starfish and anteater before using Elephant on the covers. I know this isn't about the story, but still these are animals I thought would be easy ones to put the covers.

Infact, I'm surprised they never used Lions (except for David), Giraffes, Zebras, Pandas, Hyenas, and Panthers in the series at all. They also seem like easy animals to use.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Snakie on June 21, 2015, 09:50:11 PM
Infact, I'm surprised they never used Lions (except for David), Giraffes, Zebras, Pandas, Hyenas, and Panthers in the series at all. They also seem like easy animals to use.

James, the main auxillary Animorph, used a lion morph as his battle morph.  I remember Jake not liking that due to the David memories.  Why the Lion wasn't a morph for one of the main animorphs is anyone's guess.

Generally speaking I think the main group of animorphs all got well acclimated to their specific battle morphs and rarely deviated from them.  Even when they acquired other powerful morphs like rhinos and polar bears, everyone seemed to stick with their morph of choice in virtually every combat situation (Jake with his Tiger, Cassie with her wolf, etc.).

I guess for the characters they reached a comfort level with their morphs and didn't really deviate from them for that reason.  For K.A. I think she was really in love with the idea of everyone having a "signature" morph.  Why lion wasn't chosen for that role in the first place I have no idea.  Cassie in particular could have used some better firepower.

I really don't think a Giraffe morph would have been very usefull.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Nar Klawip on June 21, 2015, 11:01:17 PM
I think a giraffe would have just been a big target for dracon fire. Not to mention not very maneuverable. Like anywhere with regular ceilings would be a no go. Not to mention doors. And why would they have needed zebra morphs when they already had regular horse morphs? Would have just made them stand out, which would again would have made them cannon fodder. Same with pandas. No real use or point to acquiring them.

I always did want to see something they morphed all the time get put on the covers, like an osprey or bald eagle. Or a flea. Actually that would have been nasty.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Dylan on June 21, 2015, 11:16:56 PM
I think a giraffe would have just been a big target for dracon fire. Not to mention not very maneuverable. Like anywhere with regular ceilings would be a no go. Not to mention doors. And why would they have needed zebra morphs when they already had regular horse morphs? Would have just made them stand out, which would again would have made them cannon fodder. Same with pandas. No real use or point to acquiring them.

I always did want to see something they morphed all the time get put on the covers, like an osprey or bald eagle. Or a flea. Actually that would have been nasty.
Better Animals for the Covers:
Mountain Goat for The Reunion. I think that would have added more variety for Marco book covers.
Chimpanzee for The Experiment. Again, I think this would have gotten more variety in terms of the covers.
Osprey for The Revelation. Ant is used for about three seconds in the book. Osprey makes more since.
Hork Bajir for The Pretender. This morph is more relevant to the book.
Humpback Whale for The Prophecy. Cassie is always doing that falling out of the sky as a whale trick, and she did that in this book. (Going by me putting HB on the cover of 23)
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: DinosaurNothlit on June 22, 2015, 06:55:56 PM
Humpback Whale for The Prophecy. Cassie is always doing that falling out of the sky as a whale trick, and she did that in this book. (Going by me putting HB on the cover of 23)

Heh, yeah, and they could even put the human form at the top of the cover, with the morph-sequence moving visually downwards to the whale at the bottom of the cover, like Cassie is 'falling' as she's morphing.  That'd be brilliant.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Dylan on June 22, 2015, 10:16:47 PM
Humpback Whale for The Prophecy. Cassie is always doing that falling out of the sky as a whale trick, and she did that in this book. (Going by me putting HB on the cover of 23)

Heh, yeah, and they could even put the human form at the top of the cover, with the morph-sequence moving visually downwards to the whale at the bottom of the cover, like Cassie is 'falling' as she's morphing.  That'd be brilliant.
I'm sad that they never used that for a cover. Cassie did that enough times in the series, it seems like it should have it's own cover.
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Nar Klawip on June 23, 2015, 11:36:05 PM
Right? That would have been a cool one. Man I want that as a poster now... (I wonder if Cassie ever read The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy)


Speaking of books where Cassie fell from the sky as a whale... When Ax was a flea on Marco when Marco jumped out of the blade ship in MM1, why did he demorph and then morph into a harrier. It was even stated that, as a flea, he would have been fine even if Marco became a gorilla pancake. I understood why Marco had to morph into a bird, but why Ax? He was nowhere near the morph time limit. I guess it made it more exciting?
Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Dylan on June 24, 2015, 12:30:24 PM
Right? That would have been a cool one. Man I want that as a poster now... (I wonder if Cassie ever read The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy)

Lol, I bet that is Cassie's favorite book  :XD:


Title: Re: Seriously Though, Why Didn't the Animorphs Just...
Post by: Tim Bruening on July 12, 2015, 04:39:03 PM
Kidnapping and freeing human-controllers might work for a little while, but it wouldn't take long for the Yeerks to catch on to what was happening.  Or at least to the fact that SOMETHING was wrong.  Even if the Animorphs started faking their deaths, the Yeerks would wonder why a disproportionate number of controllers were suddenly 'dying.'  They would then beef up security around the remaining controllers, maybe start having all of them carry Dracons with them wherever they went, as a precaution against whatever-was-happening.

Dracon > Hork-bajir.  :P

Once the Yeerks finally discovered that the Animorphs were mostly human, I was figuring that the Animorphs and the Hork-Bajir could launch their kidnapping campaign, (with Tom being their first target) since they would no longer have to worry about the Yeerks discovering their true nature.