Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: TobiasMasonPark on May 12, 2016, 02:59:39 PM
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I recently read the Hork-Bajir Chronicles (because it's one of my personal favourites) and the Prophecy (because I read the latter), and as I don't do much else with my time lately but think about Animorphs, I've been wondering what happened to the Hork-Bajir Homeworld both after the events of Animorphs 34, and the end of the earth invasion. Since we don't get much information about the Empire's remaining holdings--two of which are confirmed to have been conquered (Hork-Bajir and Taxxon) and those planets Ax and Temrash 114 claimed were conquered, like that of the Nahara (Animorphs 8: the Alien), Mak, and Ssstram home worlds--because not a whole lot of great things can be taken from the finale, we're left to speculate. Yay.
So, last we hear of the Hork-Bajir home world, the Yeerk Pool is destroyed, and possibly thousands of Yeerks are killed. The last of the arn--whose name I won't bother copy and pasting--grew some new Hork-Bajir which will be armed to stage an uprising to take the planet back from the Yeerks. Then...meh. The Hork-Bajir on earth are set up at Yellowstone (or somewhere like it) and Toby gets a non-voting seat in the House of Representatives. Toby seemed especially dedicated to the idea of helping free the planet back in Animorphs 34, but supposedly she doesn't. I don't know, maybe she changes her views on war once Jara Hamee is killed, but given her attitudes to war and freeing her people, I doubt it.
What do you think became of the rebellion? Were the Yeerks really hurt by the destruction of the Yeerk pool, or was that just one of many (perhaps one in each of the fourteen Hork-Bajir valleys, or whatever the number was) pools they had and the Yeerks just shrugged it off? Who was in charge? Were they reprimanded for their failiures? Given the damage already done to the planet, partly by the Yeerks, partly due to the initial asteroid event which created the Hork-Bajir-Bajir valleys millions of years before the events of the series, was the planet even worth saving? Would these newly created Hork-Bajir be able to maintain the planet if they defeat the Yeerks? They were bred and possibly trained specifically to fight, whereas the original Hork-Bajir were made for stripping and eating bark. Mayhaps that's why it wasn't mentioned, the planet was beyond saving. But I'd still like to know what happened there.
I like to think that this would have been mentioned had the series continued. I imagine Toby and the Animorphs going back to the planet, mayhaps with some first generation Hork-Bajir, and check out the situation there, probably with a lot more security after the travesty that was the battle in Animorphs 34. Mayhaps the Toby and her group would stay behind and show the Hork-Bajir how to strip bark or something.
I don't know. Thoughts?
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Some of the Yeerks might have taken the chance to morph Hork-Bajir. They could have gone back to rehabilitate the Homeworld, or maintain the new population on Earth.
Is it worth rehabilitating? That is a good question. It's possible the Hork-Bajir, with the exception of the Seers, wouldn't know one way or the other if it was worth it or not. If nothing else, they're in no danger of being poached or hunted like the ones on Earth are.
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I imagine it was left out of the series because of ghost writers and a possibly rushed ending. This isn't Game of Thrones we're talking about =P I would assume, though, that the Yeerk empire would be dissolved soon after they were defeated around Earth and, to avoid another Yeerk uprising, the Hork-Bajir planet would be "de-Yeerked". Maybe the freed Hork-Bajir would be taken to Earth or left there to aid with fixing the planet.
Don't think Humans would have much to do with the planet, but the Andalites would probably get involved with it. Not sure how much they would dedicate to rebuilding a planet that wasn't their own. On the other hand, Human governments wouldn't want the Hork-Bajir in a national park (Yellowstone) forever - maybe for as long as tourism gives them substantial profit - and would probably put some political pressure on the Andalites to fix the HB planet so the Earth Horks can return. Maybe they would bribe the Andalites with McDonalds?
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You'd kinda figure the Yeerks would probably hold it for a couple of years, a decade afterwards, or some such.
They deployed too much stuff to Earth and the Empire had its back broken, but it wasn't eradicated. They probably still had a substantial investment in the Hork-Bajir world, and knowing the Andalites it's not like liberating them is going to be some top priority. They're probably trying to clean up the Earth mess and focusing on keeping Andalite & Yeerk tech out of the lowly human's hands.
Once all of that's stable (which, knowing us, it probably wouldn't be for a while, mass in-fighting and clamoring to get an advantage over each other through the new tech), they might send a liberation force to help out the Hork-Bajir.
Still not lookin' really good if you happen to be a Hork-Bajir, though. Yeerk world aside (which if I remember right had already had a huge Andalite blockade around it for quite some time), the Hork-Bajir world was probably their major foothold in the universe, even after losing Earth they're not going to give it up easily. It could be taken from them, but the Andalites seem to have bigger fish to fry at the time.
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You'd kinda figure the Yeerks would probably hold it for a couple of years, a decade afterwards, or some such.
They deployed too much stuff to Earth and the Empire had its back broken, but it wasn't eradicated. They probably still had a substantial investment in the Hork-Bajir world, and knowing the Andalites it's not like liberating them is going to be some top priority. They're probably trying to clean up the Earth mess and focusing on keeping Andalite & Yeerk tech out of the lowly human's hands.
Once all of that's stable (which, knowing us, it probably wouldn't be for a while, mass in-fighting and clamoring to get an advantage over each other through the new tech), they might send a liberation force to help out the Hork-Bajir.
Still not lookin' really good if you happen to be a Hork-Bajir, though. Yeerk world aside (which if I remember right had already had a huge Andalite blockade around it for quite some time), the Hork-Bajir world was probably their major foothold in the universe, even after losing Earth they're not going to give it up easily. It could be taken from them, but the Andalites seem to have bigger fish to fry at the time.
I agree with them having a foothold on the planet still, and with the Andalites not making it their top priority. Considering the fact that they took three years to take a stake in Earth that wasn't carpet bombing the planet, they probably wrote it off as a lost cause.
Then there's things like the Taxxon home world. With the Taxxons on Earth becoming nothlits, and a rebellion taking place presumably on the planet, the Yeerks lost a bunch of their valuable resources. Who's gonna dig tunnels for them, or fly air craft, or sit in a pit for crazy Vissers to dump their hostages into?
Then there's the escaped blade ship with Tom's rebels.
The empire has quite the mess to sort out.
I picture the Animorphs liberating the remaining Yeerk holdings, once the business with the One gets figured out, going on all sorts of Animorphy adventures. It's great.
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Assuming they survived the whole ramming of the blade ship, that is.
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Elfangor survived.
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Donald Trump will build a wall around the Hork planet to stop Yeerks getting back in.
Seriously though, with the amount of effort the Andalites put into resisting the Yeerks, you really think they'd just allow the Yeerks to hold any planets whatsoever? With the potential to rise again? I doubt it hugely, and the Andalites probably went out to various strongholds after the war to cease any possibilities that the Yeerks can retain some power. Particularly with Horks being so able-bodied, that was probably the one of the first planets they would clear the Yeerks out of.
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It's hard to say what the Andalites would do. Any action on their part came from terrorists (Animorphs 38: the Arrival) stressed warriors who just want the war to end as quickly as possible (Alloran) or just straight up neglect (the Electorate).
Mayhaps they would send fleets to those areas they considered to be a priority.
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Andalites are pretty summy, let's be honest =P
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Adam, what's to say the Andalites could even take the Hork world if they wanted to?
It's likely, given how much Yeerk industrial stuff went down with the Earth fiasco, but that doesn't really mean it's going to be easy to take back a planet they'd held for, what, 30-35 years or so? It's probably been majorly fortified, as prior to Earth it's sort of their main source of non-useless hosts. If the Andalites could just go in there and win a victory, they would have done it years ago.
Earth broke the Yeerk Empire's back, and yeah, eventually that loss would probably mean the end of them in terms of conquest around the galaxy, but it's not going to be immediate.
And yeah, besides Elfangor's noble talk about the "gentle Hork-Bajir made slaves" etc, the Andalites don't seem to give much of a crap. Sure they'd get around to liberating them, but they'd be sorting out the whole Earth powerkeg first. Which would take a while.
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Do we reckon that Andalites and Humans would form an allegience of sorts? If so, then Humans would probably twist Andalite arms on a few things. This, since Humans essentially won the war against the creatures that Andalites unleashed. I don't think that the Andalites are so arrogant that they wouldn't feel indebted/guilty. Human governments would demand the fix of damages on Earth of course.
But then there's Toby Hamee who was made a member of the HoR. Perhaps she'll have some good influence on Human opinions, because no doubt she would have a lot to say on the matter. By influencing Humans, that could then indirectly force the Andalites to take some action.
Of course, as you say, the Hork planet could be heavily fortified, but then if the backbone of the empire is broken, then surely Andalite could blockade the planet and ensure that Yeerks can't transport stuff to, say, build Kandrona equipment?
.... This would be a much easier discussion if the plot was followed up in the books after 34!
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The humans can't twist the Andalite's arm on anything. The Andalites barely even acknowledge that the humans won the war, it's sort of very contentious. Alloran and Ax aside, it's not like the Andalites just come around and decide to stop viewing us as primitive clueless monkeys.
As for human government demands, what would the Andalites even care about that?
As for the blockade of the Hork-Bajir, well sure. I don't mean that the Empire doesn't collapse and the Andalites win, just that it's not going to happen overnight. Jake & the kids could be like 30 and the Yeerks still hold it.
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Actually, I can't help but agree on Andalites not caring. I forgot my own previous mispelled statement that Andalites are scummy =P
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Um . . . I really hate to be the one to point this out, because I'm a huge fan of the Hork-bajir, and their planet, and just everything to do with them . . . but . . . I honestly don't think the Hork-bajir homeworld is even still there at all.
We're talking about one of the last remaining Yeerk strongholds from which they might rebuild their empire, home to a 'backwards' species that the Andalites never really gave a high priority to saving, and at this point it might take years if not decades to painstakingly clear the Yeerks off that planet if the Hork-bajir are to be saved. Give me one good reason why the Andalites wouldn't do to them what they were going to do to Earth towards the end of the series (had the Animorphs not been there). You know, the whole 'quarantine-and-annihilate' thing?
. . . Please. Give me one good reason. I don't want to believe that's what happened. I just can't see it going any other way. :-\
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Yeah, pretty much.
The Animorphs (sans-Cassie) all die in the final book, too, sorry optimistic people. :P
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Why assume the Animorphs died? Elfangor and his crew survived ramming the bladeship.
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Totally different dealio with the Andalite Chronicles thing.
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Because at some point Marco pointed out "We give in now ,they own us."
The Animorphs, humans, won the war, and in the process made a number of discovers that the Andalite military would have keep secret. And during those neogiations, the Animorphs proved you can't just tell the humans to keep these secrets and expect it to happen. Earth may not be complete equals, but they were going to allies to the Andalite people, not the military alone, and the soldiers are going to have to slow down their dealings less the people and their allies turn on them.
The other is the promise that it's much more possible to take the HB planet than Earth. The Yeerks invested too much into Earth, and the Andalites finally, seemed, to get their sh&t together and stop fighting on all fronts. They lost HB world in the 60's and probably never tried to take it again, but now that they have the Yeerks on the rope it's reasonable to reinvest there. The council probably isn't there directly, and forces not equipped to handle a full Andalite onslaught, and, hopefully, someone is insisting that the Yeerks there get the same offer as the Yeerks on Earth, the nothlit route.
It's political suicide to do it knowing it would be disapproved of, suspected, found out, and logisitically there are alternative now that they didn't have/see before
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Agreed on the fact that the Andalites are a democracy, and once the Yeerk fleet's been gutted the Andalite civilians are going to have more of a say in things in terms of voting, the War Council (or whatever it was called in the books) holding less sway in times of peace.
Still though, I think you're overestimating exactly the the Andalites should give a monkey **** what we think, or demand. Despite the Marco quote, the point still stands that the humans have way more interest and necessity in a working relationship and peace with the Andalites than vice versa. The blue guys are going to hold power dominance no matter what, when it all comes down to it. Not to say that the kids shouldn't do what they can to minimize the diplomatic imbalance at first, but even when they did the Andalites still pretty much held the cards. It's not like if the Andalites wanted access to major downed Yeerk ships for intelligence/forensic purposes and the humans decided to not let them, the Andalites couldn't just take it if it was that big a deal, that important.
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I don't think it's that they care what we think, it's that the military cares what the Andalite people think, and the Andalite people are going to be finding out about things from the people of Earth in addition to their military. The Q-virus, the betrayal on Leera, the attempted assassination attempt and Q-virus on Earth, the whole scorch earth, was all kept secret because the electorate saw themselves as willing to fight but honorably, (and without genocide). The negotiations showed Earth as an ally in the Electorate's objectives, though maybe not an equal, but the Andalite people should listen when Earth says, "by the way, your forces might try blowing up an occupied planet, maybe you should stop them."
And I think just knowing that that's out there is enough to keep the military from saying "we won earth, now lets go scorch the HB planet real quick". They hold the power, but they showed a real willingness to looking to lay down their arms and talk about how to proceed with their new allies and probably their own people once the major conflict was over. Not because they had to, but because fundamentally they aren't interested in warring forever, and crushing the Yeerks major potential conquest while gaining a set of allies that gives you more options gives the chance to reevaluate the approach and creates a new dynamic within the Andalite system more than just adding humans to it.
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But the thing is, you can actually make a pretty decent military argument for their plan to just scorch Earth, at that point it pretty much did look like it was in the Council Of Thirteen's hands and had reached that critical mass point where the humans weren't going to be able to hold it. I don't think the Andalite electorate would have some major problem with that basic reality, not sure it's much of a bargaining chip for humans to "out" what the War Council was planning here.
The secrets of the Hork-Bajir war would probably cause some major outrage, but I can't even remember if the kids knew about that in any detail? Vaguely recalling them finding out in general terms about what Alloran pulled a few decades earlier there, but did they even have any concrete info to leak?
But yeah - with earth, last-ditch hail mary plot by a half-dozen kids that miraculously happened to work aside, the Andalites could probably make a pretty convincing argument that the Earth was totally lost by that last book in the series, not sure it makes them look all that bad in their blunt "raze and burn" assessment at that point.
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The Andalites wanted to "scorch" the Hork Planet and Earth at certain times: When it looked like a lost cause and that the Yeerks could build their empire by such a magnitude. I don't think that, post-war, the Yeerks have immediate opportunity to build.
What I'm saying is that the scorch method is seemingly only used as a last resort. As mentioned earlier, they could simply surround the Hork planet and blockade it until the Yeerks lose Kandrona resources, etc... There's no need for a last resort once the Empire had been so crippled.
I guess it could depend on "space politics". Maybe there's a NATO or UN thing going on in outer space that the Andalites are part of. If so, they'd probably want a good reputation and I don't see how destroying habited planets post-war would do thm any favours with allies.
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Well, even if the Andalites and Animorphs decide not to bother, what do you make of the genetically built Hork-Bajir rebellion?
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"Genetically-built"? What, you mean just the Toby seer stuff kicking in to organize them more than they normally could? Ehh, probably wouldn't amount to much alone, all of that only worked in conjunction with the Animorphs and such.
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I think he means the new colony made on the home-world by the Arn from the samples collected in book 34.
And I think it's fair to assume the Animorphs knew about the Q-virus what with the telling of HBC and the encounter with Aldrea, which I think the public was still in the dark on.
And while scorch earth might make sense militarily, I think there's more reason to think the electorate would not be okay with it. They make a big deal in 54 about making sure the public would have access to their conversation, an cutting off the commander before he could say what he was going to do, which would have got him in a load of ****. If it had happened, yeah you can't undo it, but then you have to explain that their was no other options, and you potentially have more involvement by the public to make sure it doesn't happen again. In HBC there may not have been other options. Minutes before the fleet showed up to Earth there may not have been. But post Earth, blowing up the HB planet would be like blowing up Brazil to keep Zika from getting worse. It's not good, it's not 100% contained/containable, but there are better ways to handle it.
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I think he means the new colony made on the home-world by the Arn from the samples collected in book 34.
Sorry, that's what I meant. I didn't think there would be confusion.
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Yeah, RYTX, I just figure the Hork-Bajir world by this stage is probably way more of a military stronghold than the Earth was at the end of the series, y'know? Like even though the Yeerks over-deployed to Earth, and the Empire had its back broken, if the Andalites could just go in there with a reasonable chance of taking back the Hork-Bajir world by force they probably already would have years ago. The electorate itself probably even considers it a lost cause, whereas public sentiment probably leans more toward Earth being able to be saved.
Along with their whole supremacy stuff about ranking species on a freakin' scale, the humans "ranking" higher than the Horks, distressing as it is I figure the Andalite public would probably be on board with the razing.
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I'm just wondering how long the Yeerks can exploit the planet. First off, it's habitable only in the valleys, of which there are about 14, according to the Hork-Bajir chronicles. In the and book, we hear that the Yeerks are cutting down trees and mining for metals to build ships and weapons. I would assume that this is how the Yeerks were providing weapons for the next thirty-forty years. The problem: the already limited resources of the planet and the fact that the Yeerks probably aren't tending to the trees providing breathable air makes me question how long they could last there.
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Well, they'd probably have a good deal of Horks left back on the planet to maintain all of that stuff, plus like forced host breeding and all. Not a nice situation.
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Ok so the most recent two Animorphs books I read are #18 where Ax blew up Leera and scored like literally 10,000 Hork Bajir kills trashing Erek's battle-record and most likely everyone else's career records except for Alloran his damn self.
And HBC.
So HBC suggests that by the stardate the Andalites pretty much bail out and quit on, there are 100,000 Hork hosts before virus.
Then virus.
We know because Esplin was born in space, that alien breeding totally takes place in the war- reproduction is a form of reinforcement that is.
But even despite forced breeding of hosts, the Visser book clearly used the word "decimate" and I think it was meant literally- 1 million Horks they could have had cut in ten to 100,000.
The rates of growth and industry throughout HBC are very slow, and this is underscored by #8 with Ax pretty much being scared at how fast humans learn and populate.
In #10, Erek trashes a roomful of Horks, and in #18 Ax annihilates an islandful.
From #13-23 Toby liberates a good sized colony, effectively negating or at least steeply reducing replacements from Earth based Horks.
Elfangor had a "legendary" career which I think we can be sure involved taking out more than one Visser. That would involve quite a few Horks too. More than any besides Alloran, Ax, and maybe Erek.
And then one of the 17-odd pools on Hork Bajir Planet gets a Whale dropped on it.
This all sounds gloom and soon like I'm implying the Hork Bajir just plain to extinct even before the planet finished dying right?
ACTUALLY my thoughts were that Quafijinivon's Clone Army, if it's of any kind of helpful size whatsoever (Andrea and Dak led a grand total of 800 ever, probably no more than 75-100 at a time, going from 48 to 12 in 7 months during the Yeerks' highest morale season.) Even 100 would make a difference of at least a year long 2nd War for Hork Bajir; 500 or 1000 might actually be enough to take a valley and survive until they get reinforcements after the Earth clusterscrew.
Starting from #37 onwards (after the Sea Blade experiments and after yet another 'let's pretend we're going to kill Marco's mom for real this time' plot, there is a real actual chance that # Free Hork Bajir, while not more than or equal to # Yeerk hosts, is *Actually* a significant fraction, like maybe instead 12 out of 100,000 it's more like 500 out of 75,000 or even 750 out of 50,000.
And remember Vissers One and Three not only are good at losing armies, they're criminally careless with executing valuable hosts badly enough to get execution sentences from an Evil Imperial Regime of Brain Stealing Slugs who rule by fear. Basically. Yeah.
Right up to #23 things look awful for the Hork Bajir planet and species but the more and more viable the Free Colony gets and then the mission with the Arn clones and a stash of weapons-- things look more hopeful for the Horks than for, say, the Andalites, whose entire society and culture goes down the toilet with the import of Cinnamon Buns.
Time it takes for an enterprising businessman to open a strip club on the Andalite homeworld and name it "Hot Bunz"? Pretty embarrassing. XD
Think Hooters....only.... with Bunz!