Were the yeerks allowed to aquire sentient creatures? and where would they stay?

[Acalio-Laron-Jaham]

When they were given the choice to become nothlits, was it just animals that they were allowed to morph?
I'm sure some, especially the human controllers who knew what normal, civilized human life is like would not have wanted to be a fish or a cat. They couldn't have just all been content with just being mere animals, could they? I would imagine some would want to be able to have families, spouses, children and siblings - just like Visser One/Eva.

I mean, what kind of a civilized life could a whale or a snake lead or bird lead? they certainly cant go into bug fighters or fly in ships or sit in building and houses.

And once the yeerks have morphed into nothlits, whether it be a sentient creature or a normal animal, where would they have lived? on earth? the hork-bajir world? the taxxon world? their own yeerk world? this seems implausible as poster anijen21 pointed out in another post - a sudden rise in bodies, more than a million to billions if all yeerks from everywhere accepted to turn nothlit - would cause a massive drain on a planets ecology and resources, no matter which planet it is. Unless its one thats like twice the size of Jupiter, has a godly amount of resources and not so many species. Unlikely though.

What would be the effects on the earths ocean if it suddenly had like a million more whales? or sharks?
And of course, if the yeerks did choose to become an animal nothlit, it would have to be one that is fair on them - can't just be a rat or a butterfly or bird which would have significantly short lifespans. So, it would be large, resource consuming and long living animals that they would morph and become nothlit in, something that if we have too many of, could cause a severe population overflow that would effect humans. And I'm betting that once they are these animals, they would want adequate living space too, not just cramped spaces in cages in zoos or whatever.

And still, I find it hard to believe that the yeerks, with all their knowledge of science and technology - they are after all, centuries if not a millenia ahead of humans - would be content to give that all up to become an animal. I would imagine that they would want to become a nothlit, but become one that is like their former host bodies - a body with which they could still be living like a civilized sentient creature, being able to speak, love, express emotions, continue operating machines, learning, teaching, discovering etc. preserving some of their pride and dignity.

So, I find it be more believable for them to have acquired hork-bajirs or even humans maybe, or at least Gedds and stay nothlit in those forms.  

[Myitt]

I always wondered about this, thanks for bringing it up.  It's never really explained, which is too bad, because I always liked the idea that maybe some Yeerks (Peace Movement, etc.) were allowed to morph human nothlit via the frolis maneuver and live a relatively normal life outside of the spotlight of Imperialism.  Maybe even some of the Imperial Yeerks could be allowed to morph Gedd and live on the homeworld (what if one of them was infested by a Yeerk on the homeworld? now this is sounding almost like the Space Bar xD So convoluted...anyway ..)

We know Taxxons were snakes, and Hork-Bajir were allowed in Yellowstone, as well as the presence of Andalite tourists lots of places...so Earth post-war would still likely be an uncomfortable place for a Yeerk, unless they became very humanized and their "heritage" as it were was kept under wraps.  I doubt the neighborhood would like it if a person (or even a family?) moved in who had once been a Yeerk.  Just your average human prejudices, I guess. 

It does open up lots of fun ideas for fanfiction and RPGs, though. 

[Acalio-Laron-Jaham]

So true Myitt, Even amongst humans today, former enemies have still abit of a stigma and lingers on and on, and hard a time getting along. Like for example, Ex-german soldiers who served under the third reich, even though they weren't nazi, some still feel hated by the people of the nations nazi germany had wronged. they are stigmatized. And I doubt innocent decendants of german ww2 soilders or nazis would enjoy living in israel today, unless they totally kept their identities and heritage secret. Humanity is actually full of alot of bitterness and divisive emotions (may or may not always be the case), but one could certainly produce viable arguments leaning that way.

So its difficult to believe such an enemy of humanity such as the yeerks would be able to co-exist with us after the war is over - our own history proves this. We can't even, or can barely, co-exist with our own former enemies from our own species without the ever ongoing mistrust. But who knows, maybe upon the knowledge of other intelligent lifeforms from space, our attitude as a species would change, become better, wiser.




 

[anijen21]

That was a really interesting detail in kim hoppy's fic "Another Chance"--Loren runs into Erek and Jenny after the war and finds out that they're both ostracized and marginalized because they were "voluntary controllers" during the war.

idk I really wish the politics of this had been more discussed. Because even if Yeerks-morphing-sentient-beings was banned, there's got to be Yeerks that weren't so bad to their hosts just in case something like this happened, and maybe the host happened to get their Yeerk a human morph, you know? And really, once the morphing technology is widespread, NO ONE is limited to their physical form anymore. A human could become an Andalite, a Taxxon could become a Hork-Bajir, a Hork-Bajir could become a Yeerk. What happens to society when there's not those stringent barriers anymore? If ANYONE could be a human, or a Yeerk, or an Andalite, (or, on a more realistic scale, a man, a woman, a white person, or an Arab) how do you treat them?

idk this is another question I had but I'm going off on a tangent again. lol I seem to do that a lot in your posts.

[goom]

i believe that the yeerks have been allowed the choice of acquiring sentient creatures.

after all, the yeerks themselves are sentient, and they'd be having to spend the rest of their lives as another creature.
i really don't know how many would pick a sentient morph (with the frolis maneuver, of course), but it seems only fair to offer them the choice.

still, though, would we want a bunch of yeerks with potentially-dangerous morphs? i know not all yeerks were evil, but some of them might, y'know, hold a bit of a grudge after what happened. (not to say other human beings are anymore trustworthy, of course.)

as stated, a sudden rise in animals could destroy ecosystems. that wouldn't be good for ANY planet.
...i'm all for the iskoort idea, myself. hopefully the two races will meet someday.

[Acalio-Laron-Jaham]

myitt - Yeah the Taxxons as snakes seems ok for them, its certainly better than their own original forms, especially with that insatiable hunger - although they wont be able to hand items and operate machinery like they once had. And what would be the effects of a sudden thousands of Anacondas be on the rainforest? and then they breed - a million anacondas in no time. Lots of small animals becoming extinct?

and a human family who were once Yeerk - if there were indeed allowed to live normal as humans and have a normal human life on earth, how would they be treated? what jobs could they get? I mean, they are probably more smarter i.e have more knowledge and is ahead of all the major university professors anyway. Governments have got to take this into account, to make it fair for normal humans. The yeerks would totally excel ahead of humans in education and job seeking, due to their advance knowledge compared to primitive humans. Just like how Elfangor as Alan Fangor during his time on earth, practically breezed through College and Univeristy, just barely holding himself back enough so that he won't attract the attention of being the next Einstein.    

[anijen21]

man this is why I watch star trek, that whole franchise is about what I wished the final animorphs book had been about.

[Acalio-Laron-Jaham]

lol anijen you sure do - and i like to follow suit haha. its fun anyway, discussing all these things thats been brought up.

wow, that is totally mind-boggling the point you pointed out - that once morphing technology is widespread, anyone can become anything, and more important anyone. Just amongst the human race alone, that is already so..so massive. so complex. So, there could be like 100 people morphing Barack Obama, impersonating the president. no one knows whose who. Stars and celebs wont really be all that exclusive anymore, as all those tributes and lookalikes could actually morph them and become them literally. I could see every guy morphing into sum major movie star and all girls not happy with their bodies or appearances morphing into supermodels. Once can just run up to one and grab their arm or something for a few seconds to acquire them. I could already imagine so many benefits, opportunities and problems something like this would create. And this is just between the humans alone. People who want sex/gender changing operations could jsut morph into the opposite gender. people could morph into other peoples partners for dishonorable, sleazy reasons and so fourth. possibilities are endless. you won't know whose a naturally borned legit male or female anymore. xD or :/ ??

Now, throw in yeerks and andalites......yike s. It would sure be a strange, straaaaaange world. a free for all. 200 brad pitts and edward cullens walking around. 300 megan fox's and jessica albas. every 2 hours, or nothlits if they chose to stay. xD

I would imagine that the government would have to put in some really, really strict rule/law or control method to prevent this. But can it be really be controlled/prevented/stopped? with the morphing technology and the people who have it, theres always gona be sum kinda leak, sum individual on the inside wanting to cause change, breach the rules.

[anijen21]

lol I made a huge post about this in the livejournal community, let me see if I can dig it up...

It's morphing time

you brought up most of the stuff I talked about, but another thing we talked about was like, gay people, FOR INSTANCE--if you morph into a gay person of the same sex as your original form, are you still attracted to the opposite gender, or is *sexual orientation* more like a part of your identity than your form? And what about, like, psychological diseases? Is a sociopath cured if they morph someone new, or do they carry all of that baggage with them?

then we just went off on crazy tangents, like if you took a newborn kitten and made it morph a human infant, what would it be raised into? It has the physical capabilities to be a sentient member of society, but it was born as a KITTEN--at what point do you BECOME the thing you morph into? I mean I feel like that question was kind of asked with Tobias but never satisfactorily answered imho

[Acalio-Laron-Jaham]

that post on livejournal is cool. yeh its really interesting. imo, i think if a baby kitten morphed into a human baby, then with the human brain, it would definitely be able to be raised up as a human. Why can't it be? its cat mind doens't have any sentience anyway, and don't all babies have 0 knowledge when they are born anyway? a empty vessel ready to absorb and be programmed, built by their parents - what i mean is language, behavior, morals, ethics etc. With a human brain physiology there, i dont see any reason why a kitten turned human baby nothlit wouldn't be able to learn these stuff. As for the cats mind within it, it would probably be instincts, causing the kitten/baby nothlit to enjoy playing with small, fast moving objects, cotton balls, be interested in little creatures, purr and hiss abit when angry or threatened. Eventually, because the human mind is the sentient one, the human mind would dominate.

With that bull or buffalo that acquired chapman in #39, im not sure about that, since it wasn't a babys learning, accepting mind. it was already an adult buffalo and human minds -already programmed, unlike the kitten and baby. but who knows, maybe if they had the time to teach it and stuff, after all, its still a human mind, maybe it will be able to be a normal human.

[anijen21]

yeah, it was an interesting question that was only asked so Cassie had another opportunity to angst about something moralistic

[Myitt]

Wow this is pretty deep stuff XD

Another thing I was thinking about, you bring up a good point Acalio about Yeerk nothlits in human form having an unfair advantage over other humans, intelligence-wise, unless they kept it under wraps...but what about them even having money and getting a house and a job?  They don't really have a resume or a savings account...it sounds like the government would have to step in, maybe give them vouchers like welfare, and then it's taxpayers' money going towards supporting the aliens who tried to destroy the planet.  Or at least, members of the same race, regardless of their wartime intentions. 

If people sometimes can't even handle paying taxes for things like the environment and welfare, or the idea of terrorists or (unfortunately prejudiced) foreign citizens in our neighborhoods, how the hell would people react if their money was going towards the alien "enemy"--living next door?  It'd be the next KKK...

An interesting note on the subject of ex-Nazis living in Israel, not to make a huge tangent or anything, but there was a Yahoo article recently about Hitler's nephew's grandson, living and raising a family in Israel, as a converted and devout Jewish person.  He kept his heritage under cover to protect his kids and his family, his last name wasn't Hitler (his grandmother changed the family name, even though she was more of a Nazi supporter than her husband, the nephew of Hitler himself o_O).  Recently though his background was revealed publicly and he was shunned by some members of his congregation, at his job, and his kids were having a rough time in school...all for something none of them did, or had any control over.  They couldn't help being related to one of the most evil men in history, and they certainly weren't evil or even anti-Semitic in the least.

Again...how the hell would we handle alien prejudice if this is how we treat even well-meaning people who just happen to have an unfortunate family history?

[Terenia]

Okay, this has probably been brought up, but I didn't read the entire thread (sorry). If it's already been mentioned let me know.


The biggest issue I see in becoming a sentient/non-sentient nothlit is the type of genocide that is occurring. If you make the entire Yeerk race become, say human nothlits, then a part of the Yeerk heritage can live on through the human offspring. The children won't be Yeerks...they'll be human...but certain bits of culture and whatnot can be preserved.

However, if the Yeerks are all trapped as, for example, poodles...well, then they will have a bunch of legitimate poodle babies. Poodles may be smart, but they are far from sentient. The Yeerk culture, heritage and history would die out after that one generation....and we all know how long poodles live.

So, I have to imagine that the Yeerks were allowed to morph sentient beings. It's still genocide...but it's somehow slightly less genocidal...

[Chad32]

I didn't really think about it before reading about it here, but the nothlit thing is genocide. Especally when something like the Iskoort is possible through bioengineering. I would hope that they can become nothlits, and they would live where the rest of the species live. It's not the best case scenario for the Yeerks, though.

[Acalio-Laron-Jaham]

Yeh, lets not forget, the Yeerks are sentient. They are not animals, and would not want to live as animals. As seen with Visser One/Eva, she loved, and cared for her human offspring. When they would want a family, I strongly believe that they would want a sentient family, not just a litter of poodles or baby whale. Don't they want to conquer sentient bodies in the first place not just for the eyes and ears, but to be able to live like sentient civilized beings as well? in #14, we see yeerk-horse controllers. If all the yeerks wanted was to just have eyes and ears, and not a civilised lifestyle a sentient creature would live, then why not just have them all infest horses? would have been much easier then infesting humans.